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"GLUIPERIG"

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1607 posts
Joined 01/2011

You can't really gloss over the first part of this and assume they are in fact true lol. The same goes for who Jesus was, what he did, or if he even existed.



Tecmo, as a Christian man I still agree with you here. What I chose to believe as truth doesn't make it true and I understand that. This was just said to make a small point. That's all.

Posted over 3 years ago

TecmoSuperBowl

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Tecmo, as a Christian man I still agree with you here. What I chose to believe as truth doesn't make it true and I understand that. This was just said to make a small point. That's all.


I can tell you though, I sure wish historical documents were more trustworthy. That would make all of this much easier!

Posted over 3 years ago

TtheAntlers

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I get that mathematically and scientifically there is no evidence that God exists and at the same time can be used to debunk religion to an extent, but the argument that the universe is just too big for there not to be other life forms is just as an irrational thought IMO. They are kind of related and technically kind of the same. Ok, so maybe some of the numbers are wrong that some religions are preaching, but if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real.


The question of aliens is an odds problem that we can (very)roughly calculate. The God question cannot be answered conventionally because no technology or method that humankind possesses can fathom the supernatural. Different questions obv.

Posted over 3 years ago

SCS

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Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....the question did what it was intended to do. Smile I know that the proof of aliens and the proof of God are two different things. I was just getting tired of the whole, "you're irrational because you think God is real and here's why" stuff. Smile I get that mathematically and scientifically there is no evidence that God exists and at the same time can be used to debunk religion to an extent, but the argument that the universe is just too big for there not to be other life forms is just as an irrational thought IMO. They are kind of related and technically kind of the same. Ok, so maybe some of the numbers are wrong that some religions are preaching, but if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real. Again, clearly I approached this thread wrong and maybe we should keep it to God existing vs not existing instead of athiest vs Christianity/The Bible. Or is that what this was meant to be?



The flaw in your argument is that I've never said that there isn't a God, but that there is no evidence for one.

There is a difference in not believing in something because of lack of evidence supporting it, and believing in something because there is no evidence to suggest it doesn't exist.

Also, logically speaking, the existence of alien life forms in the universe is far greater than the likelihood of an all-powerful, omnipotent being.

Posted over 3 years ago

TtheAntlers

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Ok, so maybe some of the numbers are wrong that some religions are preaching, but if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real.


IDK, Jesus' miracles could have been exaggerated a bit.

I know that vid is just silliness and doesn't advance the debate in any way, but on the other hand, it's hilarious.

Posted over 3 years ago

"GLUIPERIG"

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I can tell you though, I sure wish historical documents were more trustworthy. That would make all of this much easier!



Sure would! And would get annoying people off the streets preaching their thoughts/beliefs...even though most of those are just crazy. Smile I remember when I went out for my birthday this year there was a guy standing outside the bar and told me I could better my life if I accepted Jesus. I can still remember the look on his face when I told him I was already Christian, but thanks anyway. I know that is completely irrelevant to our discussions, but it just popped in my head for some reason. Smile

Posted over 3 years ago

nawhead

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Joined 10/2009

My aim is to remove influences that compel me to practice religion, learn arguments both for and against God and determine for myself if it's still meaningful and worthwhile. You're right, I probably don't fit the definition of agnostic, I'm probably just ag-curious. Poke Tongue


For religion (Christianity in particular)

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis

The Sickness Unto Death by Søren Kierkegaard

many great minds have put their energies to the defense of Christianity. and i am not a religion hater or a god hater. it can be a beautiful thing, if it was only true... it's simply an IDEAL. like a love song, it's art, poetry. these things can be so beautiful and appreciated for what they are. but the danger is in wanting it to be reality, and the many mental sacrifices we're forced to make to make it fit, and i think in that compromise, we lose a part of ourselves in the process.

Posted over 3 years ago

"GLUIPERIG"

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1607 posts
Joined 01/2011

I guess what I was kind of getting at in a way, is that I don't think ALL religion is that bad. If my church wants to go an fix up/paint a underprivileged youth center on the south side of Chicago...ok. That's not "bad". But if we want to go to the south side and knock on every door and talk to people about Jesus Christ/God and tell them they should really come check out our church, that's another thing. I think religion is bad when it promotes it's followers to vocally promote their beliefs and teachings on those who do not ask to know.

Posted over 3 years ago

TecmoSuperBowl

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To sum up my thoughts quickly before bed, I think the idea of religion is good. No one starts out with the idea of religion as something that will inspire countless deaths and crusades and whatnot. Well, maybe not no one, but whatever. Religion can be good; it can be bad. My goal would be to take out the unnecessary parts about faith, belief, God, etc. and instead focus on the good parts. We don't need a religion to tell us that murder is wrong. For those who say "without religion it would be anarchy!" I want them to be locked up immediately. If the only thing standing between me and that dude's trigger finger is The Bible, he's got issues. Instead of finding ways to continually segregate us as a people, we should simply fix up/paint the youth center as a group and out of the kindness of our hearts. Religion is often nothing more than a catalyst for doing those good things. We don't need it to do them. Unfortunately, it's also often a catalyst for all of the newsworthy occurrences.

Cliffs: let's just get along, help each other, and stop needing an excuse to do so.

And just to lighten the mood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI9ImScQGAo

Note: We can leave in the part about God if we keep it a personal thing. The problem is when it becomes more than a personal thing.

Posted over 3 years ago

maglame

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When looking for unbiased references, I don't generally recommend the works of an avid X on either side of the issue, but TGD is still good stuff.


You aren't less biased just because you aren't an avid supporter of either side of an argument. That's BS.

Posted over 3 years ago

mastertex

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The strength of science lies in how easy it is to disprove a theory. Take evolution for example. We have incredible amounts of evidence that supports the theory, but if we even had one little piece of evidence to disprove it, evolution as a theory would fall. You don't need more evidence against than for a theory to say the theory is wrong. All you need is one little piece of evidence, and it all comes tumbling down.
.



Not even close.

Posted over 3 years ago

maglame

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Also, we have met one species of intelligent alien beings already. We haven't met any Gods.

Posted over 3 years ago

TecmoSuperBowl

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You aren't less biased just because you aren't an avid supporter of either side of an argument. That's BS.


So if I purported that Joel Osteen was 100% unbiased and made an outstanding argument in "The God Fact" (not an actual book), then I presume you'd champion it just the same?

I realize you can be unbiased and an avid supporter at the same time, but we deal in probabilities around here. Chances are that Dawkins isn't 100% unbiased.

Posted over 3 years ago

mastertex

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I can tell you though, I sure wish historical documents were more trustworthy. That would make all of this much easier!



What would be the point then. If God made you believe or showed himself so even the most cynical doubter..... what good would it do?

Posted over 3 years ago

maglame

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Obviously noone can be 100% unbiased, but to call Richard Dawkins biased implies that he is biased to some significant degree more than most intelligent people.

And what I said is still true. Strongly supporting one side of an argument does not make you biased.

Posted over 3 years ago




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