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Makaveli775

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55 posts
Joined 11/2010

guess you didn't read ahead. Smile



ya fair enough my bad i came across the other guy's post after. Again too i respect what you are saying and totally dont mean to offend you for sharing your personal stories and im happy your friend beat his cancer. Im just always curious how people are gonna answer these kinds of questions because for me personally 'god knows what is best' is such a cop-out answer....

Posted over 3 years ago

"GLUIPERIG"

Avatar for "GLUIPERIG"

1607 posts
Joined 01/2011

ya fair enough my bad i came across the other guy's post after. Again too i respect what you are saying and totally dont mean to offend you for sharing your personal stories and im happy your friend beat his cancer. Im just always curious how people are gonna answer these kinds of questions because for me personally 'god knows what is best' is such a cop-out answer....



Thanks for your response, and I'm sorry if you think it's a "cop-out" answer. If I'm right being a Christian, then you'll be able to ask God that question some day face to face and finally get a real answer. Smile

Posted over 3 years ago

tHeBoYmUsTdIe

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1530 posts
Joined 01/2010

And also, if you're using your "good logical argument" of we have red and blue cars, the car I'm not looking at is red so it must be blue, then how are you not calling ME irrational? Because if religion is irrational, and I believe in my religion, that would make me what? Irrational?



Well no one, not even a logical giant such as Newton, is perfectly rational.

We can be rational people and hold irrational beliefs (Newton was a Christian-he tried to prove the end of the world using math Grin). That is the beauty of our condition. Smile

It's common for some people to take criticism personally. I do it sometimes but I try not to because I realize that criticism is usually constructive or at least coming from a good place and also enlightening a lot of the time.

Posted over 3 years ago

mastertex

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529 posts
Joined 03/2008

you don't understand how wikipedia works do you? that article has 66 sources cited. that's 65 more than the bible. Wink



Sources are not what they used to be.

Posted over 3 years ago

improva

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3892 posts
Joined 02/2008

Uncertainty and doubt is a tough sale. Most people prefer to believe something which might be wrong than to live in uncertainty and doubt - and I think that is very understandable. We only have a problem when they start to claim that they have found the truth. Absolute truth is to free thought what a tumor is to life.

Posted over 3 years ago

"GLUIPERIG"

Avatar for "GLUIPERIG"

1607 posts
Joined 01/2011

Uncertainty and doubt is a tough sale. Most people prefer to believe something which might be wrong than to live in uncertainty and doubt - and I think that is very understandable. We only have a problem when they start to claim that they have found the truth. Absolute truth is to free thought what a tumor is to life.



I completely agree with this.

Posted over 3 years ago

tHeBoYmUsTdIe

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1530 posts
Joined 01/2010

It's irrational because you can't see it, or there's no phyiscal proof. I get that. I guess if technology was like it is today 2000 years ago and you had video recorded documentation showing the miracles that one man performed while on this planet, we wouldn't be having this argument. Because unfortunately, there are no logical arguments to defend religion.



There a lots of logical arguments for theism. Just no good ones Smile Some tricky ones though lol.

My religion celebrates that man that lived 2000 years ago and the only proof that He was real is a book and stories...not physical proof.



Right. And on a concept on which so much is put at stake it is imperative that it at least makes sense. Why wouldn't the god of the universe make sense? How can it be that I am created imperfect and without any choice, yet still be punished for it? How is that just? Why is hell forever if sins are only temporary? Why are most of the big sins the ones that feel so damn good...and some that science says are not only healthy but necessary?

Religious concepts bring up twice as many questions as they answer.

We are taking the word of people that lived 2000 years ago that have passed stories on from generation to generation that there was actually a man on this Earth that was capable of putting mud on a blind minds eyes and giving him sight, etc. That's obviously easily negated.



Ya well why don't you believe in the god of thunder, zeus? Or the god of the underworld, Hades? Those are all stories too. You just weren't told by your society or your parents that those stories were true...you were told they were myths.

I just have one more myth than you do.

Posted over 3 years ago

"GLUIPERIG"

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1607 posts
Joined 01/2011

Um, just because you commit sins doesn't mean you're going to hell...big misconception. Smile

Posted over 3 years ago

nawhead

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2485 posts
Joined 10/2009

@Sneakers

The posters that I really respect, are the ones who put the same pessimistic tests to their own beliefs. I really liked reading the person who questions his own belief system (paraphrased), "But wait.....what was before the Big Bang." No one has the final answer, no matter how "scientific" they want to believe their answer is.


the limits of current scientific knowledge will always be where religion starts as it explains everything and nothing at the same time. but this is not a rational argument for god.

i may as well argue, "I don't know what John had for dinner last night, god knows everything, thus i should believe in god." it's a non sequitur.

But being completely honest, when the shit-hits-the-fan (possibly going to die), I have started praying like a biggest believer of something much bigger than ourselves.


but which deity's mercy should we seek? Yahweh? Allah? Zeus? Thor? Set? Ishtar? Mithra? Quetzalcoatl? or what about the innumerable spirit deities throughout the world? should we seek forgiveness from only the deities we have consciously spoken out against or to all of them?

Posted over 3 years ago

StueysKid

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1018 posts
Joined 11/2009

I can't wait to hire Improva some day. Dude owns

Posted over 3 years ago

mastertex

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529 posts
Joined 03/2008


I would have been impressed if The Bible had predicted Holocaust. God looking out for his chosen people?

We are just talking about religion. It's very interesting since history clearly shows how dangerous it is when someone claims to have found the truth and has success convincing other people.

I'm personally just trying to understand why people become religious.



Who said it didn't hint at the Holocaust? It made it very clear they would suffer in the world. I am not talking about religion at all. I am not the least bit religious.

fwiw-imo-etc- Religion is the problem. It is just men making crap up and often using a twisted version of the Word to do their own bidding.

I became a believer for reasons you would discount in a second, SO are you Really trying to understand or just waiting to shoot stuff down?

I am not expecting to convert anyone. Jesus made no attempts to do this at all. He worked on diciples. Meaning he looked for those who did believe/know he was God. I am obviously just a man and thus I fall into the trappings of trying to teach what I believe.

Posted over 3 years ago

tHeBoYmUsTdIe

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1530 posts
Joined 01/2010

@Sneakers



The posters that I really respect, are the ones who put the same pessimistic tests to their own beliefs. I really liked reading the person who questions his own belief system (paraphrased), "But wait.....what was before the Big Bang." No one has the final answer, no matter how "scientific" they want to believe their answer is.



Time and space started at the big bang. It's weird to think of a 'before.'

And as for the soon-to-be-coming 'how do we get something from nothing' question which will inevitably show up, I highly recommend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

Posted over 3 years ago

StueysKid

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1018 posts
Joined 11/2009

Not to get anyone upset...

The purpose of life is ? (assuming there IS a purpose) - it's to believe in God (in the form he wants you to believe and not some other form); spread this belief; and worship him? Is this it? I find this to be so lacking. Why would God need me to believe in him for everything to work? And if I don't, what... I go to hell now? Okay - that makes no sense to me. Because I could just turn around and point the finger at God for giving me more than two brain cells... like I wrote a few pages ago, I was once a fire baptized believer - and then I start thinking stuff through and it doesn't add up, and he's going to send me to hell for that? Makes no sense at all.

and then, the real mind screw is that if you determine that the concept of hell is therefore flawed, but you accept the idea of heaven, you realize that pretty much every person tries to achieve the truth, so how can God fault them? Therefore, if there's a heaven, OBL will be there, will he not? I know - sick thought. But I have no choice to see it that way. Dude did what he thought God wanted and only people that didn't have his form of Goditis could see how F'd his mentality was.

Sorry for the ramble, but religion is sort of a ramble, isn't it?

Posted over 3 years ago

mastertex

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529 posts
Joined 03/2008

Perhaps with something such as Buddhism, the benefits would far exceed the negatives - not that I've studied Buddhism but it does appear this way. It looks to me that it builds a better person without creating dogmatic enemies of humanity (and an enemy of the individual). If I were to ever look closer at Buddhism, I would not expect to find the answers to my questions about God, about the meaning of life, etc - but to look for how the beliefs and practices might reflect an objective truth.



If it isnt the actual goal it has a huge negative. The point most people miss is that Christ was much better at being a Buddist than Budda. Budda was a man and thus not perfect. I respect Budda as a man but a God he was far from. True peace is Christ. True healing is Christ. When men say I will go off and kill in the name of the Lord they are being total morons. Men are very good at that. This in NO WAY is a reflection of God being bad.. .. it is proof that all men(and women) are not pure.

FWIW- My best friend is a self proclaimed Athiest. I don't hate them or think they have a daft mind for it. I can say I have known many other athiest that think all believers are total morons. Many people who don't believe think that people who do are weak.

Religion < Faith
Religion does not equal Faith
God does not equal what men do in his "name".
A true believer's best efforts are dirty rags when compaired to the goal (God/Christ). So evertime someone points a man of the cloth doing something bad and says see proof! They have no clue what the Bible says.

It is important in my mind those things are understood.

Posted over 3 years ago

"GLUIPERIG"

Avatar for "GLUIPERIG"

1607 posts
Joined 01/2011

Not to get anyone upset...

The purpose of life is ? (assuming there IS a purpose) - it's to believe in God (in the form he wants you to believe and not some other form); spread this belief; and worship him? Is this it? I find this to be so lacking. Why would God need me to believe in him for everything to work? And if I don't, what... I go to hell now? Okay - that makes no sense to me. Because I could just turn around and point the finger at God for giving me more than two brain cells... like I wrote a few pages ago, I was once a fire baptized believer - and then I start thinking stuff through and it doesn't add up, and he's going to send me to hell for that? Makes no sense at all.

and then, the real mind screw is that if you determine that the concept of hell is therefore flawed, but you accept the idea of heaven, you realize that pretty much every person tries to achieve the truth, so how can God fault them? Therefore, if there's a heaven, OBL will be there, will he not? I know - sick thought. But I have no choice to see it that way. Dude did what he thought God wanted and only people that didn't have his form of Goditis could see how F'd his mentality was.

Sorry for the ramble, but religion is sort of a ramble, isn't it?



It is a ramble, and I think I got lost in this whole process of the difference between relationship and religion. And for that, I again apologize. Smile

Posted over 3 years ago




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