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i would suggest making all parts of your life more disciplined and focused and you will find it easier to be in a more controlled mindset.

I know this is an old thread and I'm quoting a very old post, but I've been having tilt issues lately and I think it is my single largest leak. I would like to know practical steps to "making all parts of your life more disciplined and focused" - can you specify suggestions on how to do this?

I know what tilt is and I know what needs to change - discipline, focus, etc - but it's the HOW of this that I am trying to learn more about. Thanks!

Your trouble doesn't sound like its tilt. It sounds like addiction problems. If drinking and gambling are causing issues in your life there are places that can help. As much as poker can be a great way to make money and entertain yourself it isn't worth destroying yourself. If you find it impossible to find self control- seek help. Many people have destroyed themselves this way.

I know what tilt is and I know what needs to change - discipline, focus, etc - but it's the HOW of this that I am trying to learn more about. Thanks!

in everyday life, just be mindful (as mentioned in EPTPE). just stop and think about your own thoughts constantly. pull away from the moment to simply observe yourself. when you're getting angry, it's important to recognize that "I am angry."

if you're trying to avoid something, don't focus on the thing you're trying to avoid. you have to replace bad habits with new habits.

good article on willpower:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/01/the-willpower-trick/

a good book on changing habits:
The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg

specifically for poker, set a timer every 30 min or hour, stop and grade yourself. access your mental state. be honest (this is the hard part). practice, practice, then practice some more.

gl

Read The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler. It's helped me alot. All of Tommy Angelo's stuff is great, too, imo.

bananas, anyone?

some food during breaks wouldn't hurt i guess. but try to avoid anything that'll raise the blood sugar too fast. i think bananas are high on the glycemic index (errr, it varies "A 1992 study by Hermansen et al. reported that the GI for under-ripe bananas was 43 and that for over-ripe bananas was 74").

[edit: oh! you were talking to VarianceMonkey. i'm kinda slow.]

I know what tilt is and I know what needs to change - discipline, focus, etc - but it's the HOW of this that I am trying to learn more about. Thanks!

Knowing what tilt is and understanding your tilt are two very different things. Until you understand the underlying factors that contribute to your personal tilt you won't be able to address it. Can you talk about what kind of tilt you experience? What triggers have you identified put you on tilt? What thoughts are you having when you go on tilt? How do you act when you're on tilt?

Can you talk about what kind of tilt you experience?

"This hand is very marginal and I need to fold it. Do not play this hand when it is my turn to act." Then when it is my turn to act, I raise. WTF. I lost $100, so it makes sense to sit at a $100 buy in table and try double up

What triggers have you identified put you on tilt?

Losing a hand that I 'should' have won - even if it is only 65/35. AAQ7ds all in pre against KKJ3, board has J33.
Especially in a tournament where I go from chip leader to simply having no hands hold up, or missing every flop I raise, or playing position and getting 3 or 4 bet and having to fold, and the chip stack dwindling - occasionally feel very angry and upset despite still being well above average chip stack. When I try to make a play and get beaten - if the player simply outplayed me I feel like an idiot and an inferior poker player, if the player beat me by sucking out I feel angry at 'poker'.

One of the worst combinations I have had is two massive 200BB bad beats in a row, folding a speculatve but marginal hand immediately after while trying to control the tilt, only to see two opponents go all in and watch the board give me what would have been a royal flush. Then I throw all my money away - so come to my table, folks

What thoughts are you having when you go on tilt?

Persecution complex-style stuff. Like an exasperated 'why is this happening??' and 'Why can't I just NOT WIN THESE HANDS WHERE I AM SO FAR AHEAD??' and a combination of anger and despair.
I just get such a 'WHY CAN I NOT HIT A FLOP' with a dismissive sigh as I watch my chip stack dwindle and my name drop further and further down the leaderboard. Very disheartening to 'run bad' for even 5 or 6 flops in a row, and instead of just sticking to regular play and keeping with what has succeeded before I feel shit and unable to play A-game. Everything begins to feel terrible.

I also go from 'I can win this. I just need to keep doing what I do and get my money in good and hold up and I can win this. This guy does, x, so I can exploit that. This guy never defends OOP, so raise him. You can do it' - I go from that to quite the opposite...

How do you act when you're on tilt?

Total gamble and hope to get lucky. Typical way of trying to force pots to myself. All in with 9Txx on JQK board after being 4 bet by villain. Play 60-75% of hands. Get steamed, angry, hating everything. Get very angry, not even thinking about mathematics at all, not analytical in any way, pure betting and calling when I am pretty sure I am beat - basically play how i describe bad players. That is - hope to get lucky.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chimp-Paradox-Management-Programme-Confidence/dp/009193558X

I would also add that as soon as you want to berate a fish, you should quit for the day. I called someone a 'fool' last night = shame

I would also add that as soon as you want to berate a fish, you should quit for the day. I called someone a 'fool' last night = shame

I'll check out that Amazon link now, thanks. EDIT: OK, gave it a look. I've got The Poker Mindset and Tommy Angelo's Elements of Poker to still go through... have you read this Chimp Paradox book yet, and if so, how did it help you?

I'm getting better at the not berating thing. Takes a lot of effort to swing your mind around to the point that their bad play should be encouraged - so I usually just sigh, get up in anger, feel shitty, whatever, but the end result in the chatbox is little more than a 'nh' or similar. Most of the time...

Chimp Paradox is more scientific, whereas Tommy is more philosophical, even spiritual.

Interestingly though, they both say the same things. The classic misrepresntation of yogic/buddhist principles is that you seek to make the mind and body one.

In fact it's the opposite. Through the practice of asnas, you're actually trying to separate body, mind, intellect and eventually conciousness.

Chimp Paradox does the same. It's written by the sports psychologist who trained the British Cycling team, who went from relative no hopers to Olympic gold medallists. He also works with premiership footballers etc.

His basic principle is that your brain is divided into three parts, human, chimp and computer. The Chimp represents the evolutionary reptilian brian - driven by desires, need to survive, reproduce etc.

In a straight up fist fight, the chimp will always beat a human. It is five times stronger. So rather than battling it (willpower), you must nuture and manage it.

Much of the book is devoted to strategies for managing your chimp, which may well be an anxious or angry chimp. It is actually a really funny book.

I've just finished it, but found it really enlightening and obviously sound. I'm going to work through it again.

I'd say that while Tommy and The Poker Mindset might give you control of your tilt and poker, Chimp Paradox will give you control of your life.

I would also add that as soon as you want to berate a fish, you should quit for the day. I called someone a 'fool' last night = shame

I used to occasionally (by occasionally, I mean often) berate fish after a bad variance run. I hated that I did it.I knew it was terrible and hugely -ev, so I took measures so it couldn't happen**, and now I don't even feel like doing it any more.

This method worked for me.

Perhaps look into tilt buster as a means to force it out of your system?


** I play on stars and detached all the chat windows on my tables, merged all the windows into one, then dragged the chat window below my task bar. To get to the window, I had to change windows taskbar settings (a pain in the ass) as I couldn't click it to drag it back up to type in the windows. A bit extreme, I know, and slightly embarrassing that I felt the need to do this. . . but hey, it worked. . .

His basic principle is that your brain is divided into three parts, human, chimp and computer. The Chimp represents the evolutionary reptilian brian - driven by desires, need to survive, reproduce etc.

My brain is at least 2/3 chimp.

1/3 vacuum?