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i prob need to gain weight myself, but i'm doing this because i'm convinced now that grains are not fit for human consumption. any plant that tries to tell you very convincingly not to eat it by trying to poison you, i don't want to bother with anymore. it's like eating a tiny bit of arsenic (in most seeds i'm finding out) everyday. it won't kill you instantly, but there's a reason that plant evolved that way.

furthermore, there's no reason to go after those harmful plants when there are plenty of other plants that taste a thousand times better and actually want you to eat them (they literally tempt you with bright colors and sweet, juicy tastiness). like, what's the dilemma here?

and what, in the end, does a grain taste like, once all the butter and spices and meats and sauces are removed? it tastes like nothing, like dust. again, not really tempted there.

and the side benefits of my skin clearing up, flatter stomach, no fatigue after meals, and not feeling like a crazed maniac if i don't eat every 4-6 hours, is awesome obv. it's like my body is telling me, "yes, i feel better now, thanks bro." and i've only been on it for 5 days.

and psychologically, i feel like a different person. i used to get these chills sometimes, and i'd get super agitated and nervous, so i was taking St. John's wort everyday cause i thought i had mild depression. everytime i stopped taking the SJW for 1 or 2 days, i'd get the angry chills again. but i changed to the paleo diet and stopped taking the SJW for last few days, and... nothing. i'm just like mellow all the time now. i think i must be in the early stages of insulin resistance and that must be what the chills are, and cutting the grains and normalizing my blood sugar cleared a bunch of symptoms.

that sounds very interesting and a promising account of your experience.

thankfully poolsweeper posted that it's not a all-or-nothing diet, and 80/20 rule applies. that's a relief

i just wonder, there is SO much conflicting material, schools of thought etc about food. can't someone come up with ONE theory please? haha. i mean the french eat their baguette and drink lots of wine. it's not like the whole nation is unhealthy. italians lots and lots of pasta and also wine. again, most look healthy to me. and i'm german, we eat tons of bread, but i never felt particularly ill or unhealthy in my life.

so why, if grains are so bad, shouldn't we all be super unhealthy? i'm not convinced.
and for athletes, there is a lot of conflicting adive as well. so, is it bad to load your body with carbs before a marathon, eat lots of pasta before? i mean, following the Primal Blueprint, you shoulnd't ever eat that, right?

i'm probably coming off way too extreme right now in my zeal, and bazman said this more succinctly already (on bottom of page 2), but grains are starvation food. if there's a spectrum of foods fit for humans, it's at the very bottom, and shouldn't be a staple of every meal.

sure, it'll give you energy, keep you to old age, but it wasn't chosen for its nutritional value. the benefits of this food is it's easy to farm, can store easily and be stockpiled, light, portable, and packed with calories. but what all that really means is it's a backup. i think this is the balanced way to think about it. if you have nothing else, yes, dig in. it's much better than malnutrition.

and for athletes, there is a lot of conflicting adive as well. so, is it bad to load your body with carbs before a marathon, eat lots of pasta before? i mean, following the Primal Blueprint, you shoulnd't ever eat that, right?

i'm a bit of a runner, and there's this lore that the human body has enough fat stores to run across america. but if that's the case, why do athletes feel the need to stuff energy bars and gels every half hour or carbo load the night before? something does not follow.

when a lion in the wild needs to go on the hunt, does it scarf down a power bar 30 minutes prior so it'll have energy? no, but it seems to do just fine. it uses that hunger as energy, its body unlocks its fat stores. when you're not constantly throwing sugar into your system, it starts burning fat, not sugar, and you will have tremendous energy when you need it.

FYI primal/paleo doesn't mean low carb

i get plenty of carbs from fruits and veggies

FYI primal/paleo doesn't mean low carb

i get plenty of carbs from fruits and veggies

pretty sure paleo/primal recommend some fruits, not unlimited fruits.

I eat some mild hybrid of primal/paleo after being a non-believer for a while. I still think some of the underlying principles are bullshit (eg avocados and spinach are paleo but paleo people did NOT have access to them), so I sort of do what I want (eg I eat dairy). I think I'm more in the don't-eat-grains-or-refined-carbs camp. I'll still eat rice occasionally, but stuff like bread and pasta has been completely eliminated from my daily eating. I used to think that it would be near impossible to get rid of pasta, cereal for breakfast, etc, but now I don't miss that stuff at all.

I definitely "cheat" (i HATE that word because I'm not dieting - I can eat whatever the hell I want) plenty, but I think about what I'm eating and why I'm eating it a lot more. Most of my non-paleo/primal eating consists of chocolate and alcohol, but the other way I'll stray is by not passing up bread/pasta if it really makes a meal. For example, having something like mussels in white wine and butter sauce is silly if you can't sop up the sauce with bread, so I'll just go ahead and do that.

pretty sure paleo/primal recommend some fruits, not unlimited fruits.

I eat some mild hybrid of primal/paleo after being a non-believer for a while. I still think some of the underlying principles are bullshit (eg avocados and spinach are paleo but paleo people did NOT have access to them), so I sort of do what I want (eg I eat dairy). I think I'm more in the don't-eat-grains-or-refined-carbs camp. I'll still eat rice occasionally, but stuff like bread and pasta has been completely eliminated from my daily eating. I used to think that it would be near impossible to get rid of pasta, cereal for breakfast, etc, but now I don't miss that stuff at all.

I definitely "cheat" (i HATE that word because I'm not dieting - I can eat whatever the hell I want) plenty, but I think about what I'm eating and why I'm eating it a lot more. Most of my non-paleo/primal eating consists of chocolate and alcohol, but the other way I'll stray is by not passing up bread/pasta if it really makes a meal. For example, having something like mussels in white wine and butter sauce is silly if you can't sop up the sauce with bread, so I'll just go ahead and do that.

I was waiting for you to join and comment in this thread... I enjoyed your comments/POV in Travis Steffan's Shuffle and Flow series... I'm glad I wasn't the only one baffled/shocked at his advice in the nutrition episode(s), I couldn't watch the rest of his series after those episodes.

i'm probably coming off way too extreme right now in my zeal, and bazman said this more succinctly already (on bottom of page 2), but grains are starvation food. if there's a spectrum of foods fit for humans, it's at the very bottom, and shouldn't be a staple of every meal.

sure, it'll give you energy, keep you to old age, but it wasn't chosen for its nutritional value. the benefits of this food is it's easy to farm, can store easily and be stockpiled, light, portable, and packed with calories. but what all that really means is it's a backup. i think this is the balanced way to think about it. if you have nothing else, yes, dig in. it's much better than malnutrition.


i'm a bit of a runner, and there's this lore that the human body has enough fat stores to run across america. but if that's the case, why do athletes feel the need to stuff energy bars and gels every half hour or carbo load the night before? something does not follow.

when a lion in the wild needs to go on the hunt, does it scarf down a power bar 30 minutes prior so it'll have energy? no, but it seems to do just fine. it uses that hunger as energy, its body unlocks its fat stores. when you're not constantly throwing sugar into your system, it starts burning fat, not sugar, and you will have tremendous energy when you need it.

there's a lot of conjecture and pseudo-science in this post - i'd be careful of how you phrase things (sorry, I'm an academic). I'm glad you're passionate about the topic

so why, if grains are so bad, shouldn't we all be super unhealthy?

Are you familiar with obesity rates/diabetes rates and their trajectories, particularly in the US? They're pretty damn scary.

and for athletes, there is a lot of conflicting adive as well. so, is it bad to load your body with carbs before a marathon, eat lots of pasta before? i mean, following the Primal Blueprint, you shoulnd't ever eat that, right?

pretty sure there's basically zero scientific proof that carb-loading does anything, since glycogen stores have a limit (both time and amount). That said, even primal/paleo people agree that eating simple sugars during a marathon or whatever is +EV.

Are you familiar with obesity rates/diabetes rates and their trajectories, particularly in the US? They're pretty damn scary.

What about in India and China? From the little I've learned, they have fewer health problems (that are not related to viruses/bacteria/etc or an actual lack of food) than we do, and their diet is rice based. India especially has a large percentage of the population is vegetarian and they eat fatty foods and bread.

I was waiting for you to join and comment in this thread... I enjoyed your comments/POV in Travis Steffan's Shuffle and Flow series... I'm glad I wasn't the only one baffled/shocked at his advice in the nutrition episode(s), I couldn't watch the rest of his series after those episodes.

TY! I lurked for a while, but I can't help myself in a nutrition/exercise thread

unrelated to your post chazb0t - several of my crossfit buddies tried the whole9 30 day challenge (so they are already eating at least marginally paelo/primal) and they all said it was super rough and restricting. I really enjoy food and eating so a dietary system that I don't like is incompatible with life. I know it obv works for lots of people but frankly pots de creme is too good to give up forever

n0whereman, I think the same way about giving up carbs. I eat cereal for breakfast and tend to eat a lot of rice dishes and pasta dishes, for lunches at work as well as meals at home. I eat brown rice/pasta/bread but I didn't realise they were something that I maybe shouldn't be eating. What kind of things do you eat for breakfast or lunches etc?

And can someone briefly explain to me the downsides of eating stuff like brown rice and pasta?

This topic has been a really interesting read, thanks for posting this and thanks for all the discussion. My father has recently been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, I am sure it was from unhealthy eating habits but I am unsure if it is genetic I believe his father also had it but I am not entirely sure. anyways;

I have yet to read the book just the preface have been really really busy with my final semester of college so not much time for extra curricular's (haven't played poker in a month or so, at least not for any volume), but I am curious about the whole cutting carbs thing, which seems to be the most prevalent thing about this type of "diet" if you choose to call it that. I was talking with my mother and they diet my father has to be on is "low carb" but he has to maintain a certain level through out the day because he must keep a balanced blood sugar level I think. I am still not entirely up to speed on all this it's a pretty confusing disease and I just have not had the time to get caught up on it. Does this primal diet consist of enough other sources of carbs to remain balanced? What I have gathered so far is that you should eliminate grains from your diet in essence because it is more or less a poison to your body (I might be using harsh words here)? Without grains can you maintain a healthy amount of carbs within your system to maintain that balance needed in the diet suggested for my father by the nutritionist?

I believe the diet allows for 60g of carbs in meals and 20g of carbs if snacking between meals, maybe someone who knows more about the situation can correct me on this?

He did well for the first few months after being diagnosed but has since not stayed overly true to the recommend diet and while he is still maintaining decent levels of blood sugar I am confident that he can do much much better. I would defiantly like to know if this "primal/paleo diet" would be a good way to get him back on track or not.

also is this type of diet that much different from say the Atkins or South Beach diets? I believe they stressed low carbs as well but I am guessing they don't throw out any whole grains in their plans?

I know it obv works for lots of people but frankly pots de creme is too good to give up forever

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-free-custard/

I am not completely dairy free either, but heavy cream should be fine, the full fat stuff is best iirc.

Or maybe you could experiment making it with coconut milk or something.

Google is my friend: http://spicypaleo.blogspot.com/2010/11/testing-for-thanksgiving-chocolate.html (Paleo Pots de Creme)

n0whereman, I think the same way about giving up carbs. I eat cereal for breakfast and tend to eat a lot of rice dishes and pasta dishes, for lunches at work as well as meals at home. I eat brown rice/pasta/bread but I didn't realise they were something that I maybe shouldn't be eating. What kind of things do you eat for breakfast or lunches etc?

I eat eggs with bacon for breakfast pretty much every day (not a bad way to start your day amirite?), but stuff like greek yogurt and nuts, smoked fish and some berries, whatever meat you want, etc are all valid options. Normally my lunches are leftovers from dinner, so meat and vegetables of some kind. I also try to cook ahead for a week and have things like chicken/ground turkey/etc cooked and ready so I can just add a sauce/spices/veggies/whatever to them and be good to go in just a few minutes.

BTW sweet potatoes are a great source of nutrients and good carbs that actually have flavor to them (unlike, say, plain pasta).

And can someone briefly explain to me the downsides of eating stuff like brown rice

I don't really have a problem with brown rice - I don't remember all the science offhand but I know it's better than wheat-based products.

JacknCoke56 here is a basic overview of what it's all about:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/