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Just want to say you guys are impressive to me. I really want to make good/better videos when I read stuff like this.

I am not expecting to be a winning $15/30 player in the next 12 months or to be playing even close to that level

Set a big crazy goal, and one day it won\'t seem so crazy, and one day you\'ll have it. Poker is weird and unpredictable, and your chances of shooting up in limits are better than you think, because your skill will improve and you\'ll sooner or later get lucky too

When I was a micro stakes poster on 2+2, I would lurk and read all the higher stakes limit forums, including the high stakes one, and marvel at people playing 30/60 on the internet, and bigger live! I always thought to myself \"the advice here won\'t apply to you right now, but damn it, you\'re gonna be here one day so you might as well be ready for it\". I always had a fool\'s confidence and big aspirations. Those plus a little skill and a lot of luck somehow worked out for me. Confidence (even a bit misplaced sometimes) is key.

-DeathDonkey

I just so happen to have pretty much my lifetime in poker in my pokertracker DB. Ok I started out on UB, playing play chips, and eventually penny limit and then 1c/2c NL. I would say I played there for 6 months or so while I learned that I liked poker, that I had a bit of skill at it, etc. Then I lucksacked a tournament for huge money and had a bankroll!

August 2004 I started on Party Poker, at the 50c/1 limit tables, which were high stakes for me at that time. Also at this time I was a micro poster on 2+2 as I mentioned in the last post...

Ok within a month I was taking shots at 1/2, by October I was logging hands at 50c/1, 1/2, and 2/4 depending on what good games I could find and my current bankroll / confidence.

February of 2005 I took my first shot at 3/6 and did well. By April I was ready for 5/10, but the full games at that time were disgustingly tight and tough, so I first tried 5/10 6 max (this is before there was 6 max tables at all limits, on Party it was 1/2 6m or 5/10 6m), I was experienced at 1/2 6m and felt ready to go. I ran sick hot and killed the 5/10 games. By May I was taking shots at 10/20 6m.

July I went from my biggest month being like +1k to winning $8k and I felt on top of the world.

In October I was taking shots at 15/30 and 30/60, ran hot again, and won almost 20k. In December I moved to Empire after the sites split and won 50k three straight months, playing 20/40 to 100/200. I haven\'t had a month as big as that since, which was I guess 15 months ago. The games are tougher now and I can\'t complain or expect to run that hot or get that lucky again.

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So yeah I\'m pretty sure that wasn\'t the story you wanted to hear as I definitely moved up quickly and ran hot. I played a decent number of hands too though. What roadblocks have there been for you in the 3 years you mention? I mean, if you just don\'t win or lose when you move up so your bankroll hasn\'t progressed in 3 years, that\'s one thing. But if you withdraw money, use it for other purposes, and then play the same limit month after month, I have your answer.

I didn\'t learn a lot of things about poker until I thrust myself into tougher, more aggressive, higher stakes games where I had to sink or swim. You just see how the other players play, and if you find success, you gain huge confidence and boldness to try new plays, to see things slightly deeper, to realize your opponents that are just like you make mistakes too, and there is money to be won off Tight Aggressive players, not just loose passive fish.

-DeathDonkey

I\'m sure I saw this in another post but cannot find it unless I keep looking right past it but how do you other guys study rtr videos?

There\'s so much expertise there that it feels like I need to memorize every other word he says; I\'ve watched most of the vids numerous times, take my little notes here and there but feel like I\'m expecting too much to absorb more info faster than I have been.

Every time I replay a video I hear something I missed from before; it feels like I\'m going at a snail\'s pace so how do you (new guys) use these?

Do you watch them numerous times or do you pick it up right away? Do you just watch one over and over and over before going on to another one? Do you watch just before playing and try to work things in that way? Do you take notes and do something with them?

Sometimes it feels like I\'m trying to memorize mechanics when what I really want is the concepts so I\'m open to new ways of using these.

I tend to watch a new video two or three times and post questions about any hands I need more explanation about. Most of the hands are usually explained very well by the guys though, so I don\'t usually have that many hands I need to seek guidance about.

Once I have watched a new video a few times. I will watch it again a few weeks later, and when I do this I always find things I did not notice before.

I think for most people it takes a very long time to absorb all the kinds of information you need to be a decent holdem player.

Some poker players (the three guys who run this site probably come under this category) are fortunate that they can learn and apply poker concepts in a relatively short period of time, but for most of us however it\'s a very long time.

I don\'t think you should worry too much about making quick progress, I think if you watch the videos on this site and think about the things the video makers are saying and doing your game is bound to improve.

When I am playing, I try and think through various situations in a way similar to how the guys here think about things and also the way Stoxtrader things through hands. Although all these players have slightly different styles of play, they all tend to go through a similar type of thought process when they are in a hand.

I think watching these videos, posting questions, answering questions and interacting on the boards here is gradually making me a better player, but I am not a quick learner so I am not expecting to be a winning $15/30 player in the next 12 months or to be playing even close to that level.

DeathDonkey wrote:

When I was a micro stakes poster on 2+2, I would lurk and read all the higher stakes limit forums, including the high stakes one, and marvel at people playing 30/60 on the internet, and bigger live!
-DeathDonkey

Hi DD,
That’s a really encouraging post you made, but can I ask you how long were you playing at the micro limits before you started to make good progress and start moving up. Most of the good players I have read about, players like Stoxtrader, Ed Miller, although they might bust out when they first start off because they just play for fun. Once they take it seriously they seem to really get it and be playing at mid/high stakes in around 12 months or so. It’s only a guess, but would I be correct in assuming that within a year or so from when you started playing, you had made fairly rapid progress and were playing at reasonable stakes?

I’ve been playing for nearly three years, and I am still struggling at low limits, and I know lots of people who like me have been playing for quite a while and work at their game but still just don’t seem to get it. I’m hoping that eventually I will be a winner at games up to about $5/10, but I don’t think I have the inbuilt talent/ability to get much beyond that level. I suspect the people that win money on line at $30/60 and above are the people with a lot of this inbuilt talent, and they can fairly quickly shoot up through the limits because they can absorb all this poker knowledge without too much difficulty.

By the way in case this post sounds too negative, I think this site is absolutely terrific, and I feel I have made more progress in my game in the short time I have been a member here than in all the rest of the time I have been playing poker. Hopefully this progress I think I am making will start to pay off at the tables, anyway keep up with the great videos I think they are definitely helping me improve.

DeathDonkey wrote:

What roadblocks have there been for you in the 3 years you mention?
-DeathDonkey

started playing micro limit full ring games on Stars, found the micro limits fairly easy by mainly just sticking to a sensible pre flop strategy and not having to worry too much about my post flop ability. I played all the limits available there from I think it was 2/4 cents unto $1/2, only moving up when I had won 300 big bets at each limit. When I got to $1/2 I found that a lot of the players there were also adopting a reasonable pre flop strategy and the games were tighter and a bit more aggressive than I was used to. I was B/E at that limit for quite some time, and so I started bonus chasing a few other sites. I don\'t usually play more than two tables at a time, and mostly I just play one.

I then read on one of the forums that a good way to improve at poker for people who are not making progress at $1/2 or $2/4 full ring limit games was to try six max. As I have a tendency to be weak tight I thought it might be a good idea to play some short handed tables and so loosen myself up a bit.

I decided to drop down from $1/2 full ring (which I wasn\'t beating anyway) and I think I started playing 10/20 cent 6 max tables. Again I found the tables fairly easy to beat, probably for two reasons.
1. Lots of the players at these 6 max tables were very poor.
2. I ran pretty good (but didn\'t realise that at the time, I thought I was running normally and it was my skill that was making me money lol).

Again I played each limit until I had won 300 big bets and then move up. I really thought I was getting somewhere at last, I went through all the 6 max micro limits up to and including $1/2 and got to my target of 300 big bets in each one, generally beating each game for nearly 3 big bets per 100. I then hit a brick wall at $2/4. I found the players here in general to be far better than the typical players I had been used to. I stayed at this level for quite some time. Loosing around 100 big bets then getting back to almost B/E then loosing again and getting back to B/E. Finally I lost 300 big bets at this level and decided I was not good enough to beat this level and dropped down to $1/2.

Things did not go for me too well at this level either, I am not sure if the typical 6 max player has improved over the last year or so but I did not find these games anything like as easy as I did the last time I played them. I had a similar experience there to $2/4, long stretches of loosing around 100 big bets then coming back to B/E then loosing another 100 big bets. Then I went down 300 big bets and decided I better drop down to $0.50/1 where I am at the moment. I have been at this level for quite some time and I am just slightly above B/E. I think I am better than most of the people I play against, but not so much better that I can beat them and beat the rake.

I don’t need to take any money out of my poker bank roll, I have a reasonably well paid job, and even if I ever became very good at poker I would not wish to play full time. I like the idea of having a nice second income for something I enjoy doing. But I also like the idea of not having to win at poker in order to pay the bills. So ideally if I was making on average $150 to $200 dollars a week playing say $3/6 or $5/10 I would be quite happy.

I watch the video with a special notebook specifically for RtR videos...

After entity is dealt a hand I try and find the line I would take in his spot. each time entity is confronted with a decision I pause the video, plan my line, unpause the video and compare.(sometimes this cuts the audio in a wierd way and I have to rewind)

For instance, when entity would be first to act vs. players A and B, I would think something like... \"we have to bet for value here, player A is nitty enough where we can bet/fold to his raise... player B is enough of a spewtard where we will have to call his raise...\" then I compare my thinking with entity\'s.

this is why I made a post about the \"what ifs\" in the videos being so helpful. say for instance in the example above, we bet and both players fold. I get just as much (sometimes more) from entity saying after the fact \"I bet for value there, and I think it was a bet/fold vs. both players...\"

When a thought of mine conflicts with entity\'s/he considers an angle of the hand that I completely ignored, I record the following.

The hand specifics, i.e. our hand, reads, action, points where there are critical decisions...
My thoughts in my decision making...
Entity\'s thoughts in his decision making...
Where my thinking was flawed...

This process is actually not too time consuming (1 or two table videos anyway) and I find it helpful to have the journal to read through whenever I have down time.

xrosswind wrote:

I think this site is absolutely terrific, and I feel I have made more progress in my game in the short time I have been a member here than in all the rest of the time I have been playing poker.

I second that comment...

xrosswind,

it seems like we are in a pretty similar situation w/ our game/attitude towards improvement.

I think a lot can be said about the last comment DD made in his post, about confidence. When I submitted the video for coaching I was in the middle of a -400 BB downswing, and I\'m sure DD picked up on the lack of confidence in my audio commentary. When sending me an email after the video, he said in general I had played well... but I needed more confidence in my game.

Since, I have played w/ much more confidence and have faired very well over the 20k hands since. I\'m not sure how much of this can be directly attributed to the increase in confidence, but I know that I feel 100X better about my game even after a losing session.