General Discussion Poker Forums

If I knew he couldn't afford it, that it would hurt his family/force him to miss rent, etc, I wouldn't keep playing. I might not even be able to play well, knowing that, tbh. If I knew he was leveraging credit but didn't have any suspicions about his ability to afford it, I would probably keep playing, at least for a while.

Although this probably doesn't become an actual concern for me if the stakes are <400nl. I mean I've encountered exactly this situation before, but it was lol 50nl so, yeah.

similar situation happened to me a while back. Here's the thread on it:

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/4-General-Discussion/topics/7581-moral-quandry#posts-53446

I basically came to the conclusion that if your conscience is bothering you, then quitting is the right move for you.

Usually my conscience doesnt bother me unless I feel like they are hurting themselves or hurting their family, which you basically will never know, unless they tell you...which is what happened in my situation in the link above (of course he could have been lying).

more likely than not he is lying

I personally would have to quit playing the person if I knew for a fact that they were losing money that would hurt them or their familly. It would be like a boxer standing over a fallen opponent and continuing to hit him until he died.

That having been said, I would have to know for sure. No random internet chat from a stranger would convince me to stop. If I knew the person and knew that it was causing them harm I would stop.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.

I personally would have to quit playing the person if I knew for a fact that they were losing money that would hurt them or their familly. It would be like a boxer standing over a fallen opponent and continuing to hit him until he died.

not even close to the same thing

unless you know the person and know his family, i wouldnt stop. its his fault for being retarded. but if it bothers you dont do it. you dont wanna feel bad about beating some idiot out of there money. if you feel strongly enough to make this thread, dont do it. it clearly bothers you, so just do what you feel is right. period. to hell with what others think! as long as you are not cheating, poker is about making the move you feel is best. do what you feel is best, and not what anyone else thinks.


that being said, i stack him until he hits his credit limit or deposit per day limit. make money!

I have always explained the mentality needed to play poker professionally like this.

You are playing in a live cash game at a local casino two weeks before Christmas. It is just after 5:00 on a Friday afternoon and some blue collar type guy comes walking in. He is sill dressed in his factory smock with his Natural Light in hand. He has obviously been drinking the entire hour he and his buddy's took to drive in from the city.

He gets seated to your right, and starts chatting up a storm. After 1 rotation of play, you learn a few things.



1. He learned Holdem by playing "Vegas Strip" on his PS3.

2. He just go his Christmas bonus. But it was only half of what he expected. He does not have the cash to get all three of his kids the gifts they want this year. So he is gonna try to tipple up or just get everything from the Salvation Army store.

3. His oldest Susy, who is 8 was just diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. He is not sure what that really means, but has has known for 3 days, and has not told his wife.


Do you....

A. Suggest to the guy nicely that the casino may not be the best place for him to increase his Christmas fund.

B. Give him some pointers on his play, and fold a few hand that you would 3 bet normally when he opens for a raise.

C. Suggest to him the single '0' roulette wheel the casino has. It has the best odds of any game in the house.

D. Use a C-Bet sizing tell you picked up on him to take his entire bonus check. When he runs out of cash and asks you if the casino has an ATM, let him know there is one by the restrooms.


If you choose anything but 'D' this is not the right profession for you. It is a predatory game we have chosen. And the only two factors that should be considered are, if they have money, and are less skilled than we are.

Some people here will not agree with my belief that you need to take it to this extreme, but if you are spending time having an internal morals conflict, you are not playing your A game.

I agree with smrz. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

I also agree WoT's POV. If someone's decisions/actions are making me miserable, I will avoid those people. I study and play poker for several reasons. All involving my own learning, entertainment, and (future) profits. I really don't want to know or worry about a stranger's drama. I have enough of my own.

If someone is talking about suicide at the table I would tell them to get help either by a suicide hotline or gamblers anonymous, since that beats the alternative. I would also tell them I am very unhappy about them involving me in their crap and to stay away from me. Whether its true or a lie, its just some drama I will not deal with outside of my circle of family and friends. Having had a suicide in the family, and other drama involving an unexpected death, I really have no desire to deal with that if I can avoid it. I am not a social worker or a priest, and have the social skills to prove it! (Yes, that is humor btw.)

Poker is maybe the only sport where you are looking for the weakest opponent to play against to win.

In every sport you go for the opponent that makes you either fight for the win, or fight for the learn, with poker you just go for the sucker, take his cash and be gone

I think thats one of the weakest aspects about poker

Let fish play against fish like an amateur boxer would fight and amateur boxer and let the pro go vs the pro.

If poker is really a skill game, then stop going for the fish where variance will make him god or strike him in the face like lightening.

Woopsy, little bit of a rant here

similar situation happened to me a while back. Here's the thread on it:

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/4-General-Discussion/topics/7581-moral-quandry#posts-53446

I basically came to the conclusion that if your conscience is bothering you, then quitting is the right move for you.

Usually my conscience doesnt bother me unless I feel like they are hurting themselves or hurting their family, which you basically will never know, unless they tell you...which is what happened in my situation in the link above (of course he could have been lying).

I REALLY highly recommend reading as much of WiltOnTilt's thread as you can. An amazing amount of thought and well argued points are in there addressing exactly this problem.

You are not responsible if someone else decides to fuck up their life.

Information and help regarding gambling is out there, if people choose to ignore it how is that anyone's fault but their own?

I know it sounds harsh but assuming some kind of responsibility for individual's actions is what leads to some of the ridiculous legislation which is in effect at the moment.

If you give people freedom of action a minority will destroy themselves with it, you can't stop it.

However it's your choice, as always, and if it does bother you then walk away. Not every decision in life is an EV calculation. (Just most )

Good Answers so far!

I want to add one point here, that hasn't been mentioned so far I think.

We all sometimes have these questions, of "are we earning money from someone, who can't afford it, ruins his life etc.".

I think when answering the question if something is moral or not we have to consider more than just the actual action, that we take somebodies money at that moment or somebody else does it when I don't etc..

For example I play since I started studying at University. All my textbooks, two laptops, one desktop computer, all my furniture, TV etc. etc. I could finance just by playing poker. Without playing poker as a side income I wouldn't have had such a great life standard for the time beeing at university and might have not achieved such good results, when I had to spend my time working in a coffee shop to work for 7€/hr or so.
I go into a health care job later and help people and hopefully do something good. So I kind of pay it back to the community.

Ok you could say that if you are a professional player you can't argue like that. But who makes all the great videos and inspired me and a lot of other DC members? Yes, it were coaches like WoT and others who made me stick to the game and made me win my little piece.

So basically: It all flows from one to another :-) I hope that helped someone to feel better now :-)

Good luck to all!

Does anyone on here remember a recent "poker cast" on 2+2, where Mike and Adam talked about some pro HU player crushing someone in a few matches maybe even just one long match. The pro then found out he broke the guy, via posts on a forum or something and gave half of it back?

When I heard this I thought WOW what a great Idea, I can play HU and if I win keep 100% of it. However if I get smoked by a better player I can whine at the table and make him/her feel bad for me there, then go post about it on 2+2, on how stupid I was to spend the money for
A) My house payment
B) The payments for my sons cancer treatments
C) My kids college fund
D) Baby shoes

Christ whatever it takes to get a pitty party started for me, and pray that he gives me 1/2 of it back and BOOM free rollin baby!

Questions - If they break you/bust you/ or make you tilt, do they give a (Blank)? Do they have to play at that level? I assume most everyone that I play against is there to take my money, so why shouldn't I play with same idea. Also why do these people have to play so high they go broke? Why play at 500NL for your life savings when you can play at 25NL for mine

/Rant on
Lets start a new game called donker, where we all develope mancrushes on one another, that leads to bromances, where we can sit around a play for pretzel sticks and share warm dinks by the fire. If anyone can't afford to play or goes broke at a certain level we can put them on whats called "pokerfare" where they dip into a pool of say .05% of all money on that poker site which is set aside to accomodate the poor and rather than them just go earn enough income to play poker like the rest of us, they can sponge off those that are successful. In donker we will put regulations in place for players that aren't any good at the game.

Regulations like-
1) if you lose your banroll at any level, even if your not properly rolled for that level, all players showing positive gains vrs you must pay back 5% of those gains at the time you go broke.
2) After receiving your payments from better players you will automatically be placed in a 100k freeroll, which is sponsored by "Isuckatpokergivemebackmymoney.com" (They also provide a 100% rakeback to qualifing members with a -2bb/100 winrate or worse) {Sadly I would qualify this month}.
3) If you qualify for the freeroll two months in a row and do not place in the money, the following month you will be awarded pokerstamps. These pokerstamps play like real money, but they aren't your real money they are money we "The poker site" have collected from more successful players, and you can use these pokerstamps to play against anyone and any money you win you keep just return the pokerstamps after you have enough money to live on and play poker.
4) If pokerstamps and pokerfare fail to make you a better player (based on your opinion only, as opinions of better vary), The following month you a granted "super user" previlages and allowed to play on Ultimate bet or absolute poker.

This (Blanking) world is coming to swift end I swear, what ever happen to personal responsibility. You know whats gonna happen next your going to be able to kill some one at 15,16,17,18 -- 25 -- 35 and they will hold your parents responsible for it, unless they are dead then they will go after your neighbor who played loud music. Soon they are gonna take out the F, D, and C grades in school, because getting anything under a B makes people feel bad. Lets also make a law that if you purchase a home/car you can't afford no big deal, just walk away and the government will pay you to buy one you can afford.
/Rant off

Poker is a game of learning from your mistakes, you can't pity the player you bust, they know the risks, you know the risks.

The mother fuckers back in 2007 at NL200 didn't care when I bust my roll when I jumped up a level on tilt- they fucking hammered me and I learned a lesson

LOL I was such a fish I was talking in the chat and players were actually encouraging me to top up again, knowing full well it was pay day for them, so no, never show mercy at a poker table because you'll never get it back. In this game, it would be considered a weakness.

So hit and running is high morals now? Golden Rule ftw. You don't want to be hit and run you don't do it to other people. Treat them like adults and give them a chance to win their money back.

So hit and running is high morals now? Golden Rule ftw. You don't want to be hit and run you don't do it to other people. Treat them like adults and give them a chance to win their money back.

Once you lose it, it's not your money anymore. It's theirs. In fact, you're better off thinking it's not your money once you sit down and put it in play.