General Discussion Poker Forums

I have a 12-gauge Remington my Dad sent for turkey shoots. I'd like to find a short barrel for it, like 16 inches. I am considering buying a few extra boxes of buckshot and a medium-gauge handgun that is easy to shoot and clean and won't jam.

The veneer of civilization is thin, and I believe there is a small but significant chance it will be tested in my lifetime in the U.S. But not so large that I am storing more than a few days of food and water, which is necessary anyway here with the ice storms and occasional major storm.

i also wonder how many people obtained their firearms legally, then proceeded to use them in a crime.

This... People don't commit crimes with legally obtained guns, so the fact that citizens are allowed to purchase and own firearms isn't the problem.

It is the illegal firearms market that is the problem.

I have plenty of guns. I won't make up some bs like my guns are for hunting, they aren't. They are to protect myself from my own gov. so I don't end up like the Jews. I suggest any Europeans go visit Auschwitz before they make a final decision on gun ownership.

I am contemplating a serious reaction, but I am afraid you are just kidding..

This... People don't commit crimes with legally obtained guns, so the fact that citizens are allowed to purchase and own firearms isn't the problem.

It is the illegal firearms market that is the problem.

But why are there so many guns in the country in the first place?

But why are there so many guns in the country in the first place?

Canada has more guns per capita than the US IIRC, I could be mistaken though.

This... People don't commit crimes with legally obtained guns, so the fact that citizens are allowed to purchase and own firearms isn't the problem.

Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

Had a long conversation once with Nolan about the difference in culture, there are things about US society that are an absolute mind fuck to Europeans. With that said you guys are in a catch 22 situation where gun ownership is so wide that responsible people have to be allowed to have them.

As someone from N.Ireland I know all about what armed conflict, I also know I'm a lot happier with everything decommissioned.

Canada has more guns per capita than the US IIRC, I could be mistaken though.

Not according to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

But my point is: isn't the likelyhood of illegal firearms far bigger in a country where there are massive amounts of legal firearms than in a country where there are few legal firearms?

Not according to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

But my point is: isn't the likelyhood of illegal firearms far bigger in a country where there are massive amounts of legal firearms than in a country where there are few legal firearms?

"As many people possess multiple weapons and many others possess none, this number is not a representation of the percentage of people who possess guns in each nation. Nor does it recognize that there are government supplied weapons for militia such as Switzerland. Alternatively, a civilian supplied country such as the USA, can have the data significantly distorted by owners that are collectors that have huge collections of weaponry...."

It is important to read the disclaimer on the numbers in this list. It initially looks like this list says that 9 out of 10 residents have a gun. No wonder everyone freaks out. Maybe 1 in 10+ of my friends might have a gun. This study is faulty as it is counting even when a hunter has 10+ guns in his collection (and dividing it amongst other "residents".)

Me? I haven't owned a gun in 20 years, but I absolutely support the right to own a gun legally (although not for felons). I also enjoy the idea that a thief doesn't know whether there is a gun in my home or not.
EDIT: I forgot about the 22 rifle my grandmother gave me (from my grandparents collection) when she passed away. It hasn't been out for years.

I knew when Chaz started this thread, it was a powder-keg of a topic.

"As many people possess multiple weapons and many others possess none, this number is not a representation of the percentage of people who possess guns in each nation. Nor does it recognize that there are government supplied weapons for militia such as Switzerland. Alternatively, a civilian supplied country such as the USA, can have the data significantly distorted by owners that are collectors that have huge collections of weaponry...."

It is important to read the disclaimer on the numbers in this list. This list says that 9 out of 10 residents have a gun. No wonder everyone freaks out. Maybe 1 in 10 of my friends might have a gun. This study is faulty as it is counting even when a hunter has 10 guns in his collection (and dividing it amongst other "residents".)

It is however important to the point in my previous post.

It is however important to the point in my previous post.

You would be surprised where the illegal guns (and automatic weapons) in Mexico are manufactured. Asia and Russia.

I say arm all of the guys with white hats (like they do in Switzerland)....and scare the shit out of the asshole bad guys with the illegal guns.

Studies of hardcore prisoners have clearly shown that criminals prey on weak people -- and they always take the easiest path. Bad people prey upon vulnerability, as they are cowards when faced with real opposition.

Chazbot,
Now that you started such a great topic LOL ..... now I am curious why you want a gun? Hobby? Sport? Home defense? Poker Tilt?

Sneakers wrote:

In Mexico, it is necessary to have a signature from the Army General to own a gun. No one can defend themselves against corruption, robberies, cartels, or "Los Zetas" (a mafia).

lol. Nice attempted correlation there, but Los Zetas take on Federales en masse, and the cops have guns.

Seramike wrote:

I won't make up some bs like my guns are for hunting, they aren't. They are to protect myself from my own gov. so I don't end up like the Jews. I suggest any Europeans go visit Auschwitz before they make a final decision on gun ownership.

More lol. If the US government decides it wants to take you out, enjoy shooting at an M1 Abrams with whatever pistol or rifle you got. Say bye to your ass either way though. They only real protection you have from your government is your fellow citizens.

Chazb0t wrote:

This... People don't commit crimes with legally obtained guns, so the fact that citizens are allowed to purchase and own firearms isn't the problem.

It is the illegal firearms market that is the problem.

Most of the "illegal" guns were once legal. They were either purchased in states with lax laws, at gun shows, or they were stolen from law abiding citizens during robberies. Otherwise there would have to be shipment after shipment of S&W/Glock/etc. being hijacked.


I'm in the gun ownership camp, but for none of these easily argued away points. I support it for the true militia aspect, like the Swiss. If those untrustworthy Canadians ever spew across the border, I want them confronted by army, navy, air force, marines, national guard, and any single other person they come across. If every Polish citizen were armed, Germany in WWII would have had their hands more full than we do/did with Iraq. And ultimately, everyone should have the right to defend themselves. Like I said, in medieval Europe, if you didn't have a sword, you got pushed around. This isn't the Middle Ages anymore, but the reasoning still applies.

Razor wrote:

lol. Nice attempted correlation there, but Los Zetas take on Federales en masse, and the cops have guns.

Again Razor, you are misinformed. Los Zetas are EX-Special-Forces that are armed better than the Mexican military or police. They come from the police/military and have infiltrated the police.

The point is anyone with a gun in their home can defend their family. I know a couple of families that have been raided in their homes. Most often they are afraid to do anything about it, because quite often the police are involved.

A key word that I said was "Corruption". The police are corrupt and involved in "Los Zetas". When the "police" are corrupt, it is upon an individual to defend his own family. Common sense.

BTW, Zeta means the letter "Z". It comes from police radio code.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

I am contemplating a serious reaction, but I am afraid you are just kidding..

He's not kidding. For more on this reasoning, check out the website of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. www.jpfo.org.

Here's a nice chart they produced showing a list of 20th century genocides and mass killings by citizens' own governments: http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart

Stepphen Razor wrote:

More lol. If the US government decides it wants to take you out, enjoy shooting at an M1 Abrams with whatever pistol or rifle you got. Say bye to your ass either way though. They only real protection you have from your government is your fellow citizens.

Lol at those who don't know military history. Perhaps you should read about the Warsaw Ghetto or the USSR (failing to take over Afghanistan after 11 years.) Or you can simply turn on the news and watch as we lose in Afghanistan (also 11 years, hmmm) and Iraq. You are also under the impression that the entire military would side with an oppressive gov which is false, there would be heavy equipment on both sides.

Backdoor gun ban warning for those in America who care.

http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/epa-reviewing-request-ban-led-bullets