General Discussion Poker Forums

are you sure?Because this strat is played a lot by high level korean players, so can't understand how much higher up you can go from there.

I have no idea tbh I just think that's what he was referring to

while I have problems vs a lot of strats I'm pretty happy to scout and see 2 gates before the cybernetics core as 1 cannon and a cpl zealots basically shuts it down. I can't speak for the other races though.

so I'm still quite noob, but playing toss vs toss, I just got pwnd when the guy massed phoenix then threw in some carriers, but to be fair on my side, I was playing those stupid practice matches so the rocks were there blocking lol.
Map happened on dessert oasis

So at first I went for a standard early stargate to void rush saw he had rushed phoenixes and went straight to a 4 gate transaction. By then he began to mass phoenixes, so I built my gateways plus forge and decided to go stalker heavy with some zealots. He ended up harassing my stalkers with his mass phoenix army about 10. After grabbing up a decent size, 7 stalkers 5 zealots 2 sentry (also had ground upgrade lvl 1 went for a timing push), i decided to push and went straight for his base. Also got my expansion during the push. Now problem is I raninto his rocks blocking his base saw his one carrier and I was like o SHIT. i did manage to focus fire carrier till his shileds dropped but he ran and i spent the next 3 minutes hacking at his sutpid rock. By the time i broke in, he had anohter 2 carriers, I took out one carrier and got raped by his mass phoenix plus 2 carriers. Did get some probes with the zealots and I did get enough of his units but he had sent a small force to harass my probe line in which he did grab some of my probes.

So ultimately that led me to defeat as he massed another 2 carriers and kept pumping so that by hte time I tried storming his base he had too many carriers all while playing on one base. So I've been scratchign my head and I know its just a stupid practice map and usually early scouting would show this without the rocks there but in this event, what counters as a protoss would you do against a mass phoenix build. Well to be honest, I guess I'm being a bit result oriented but in real game would this have worked, or just on these practice maps due the rocks being there.

what strat you mean?

out-macroing the other guy. I should've been more specific. Against terran it's just still really hard, you can't break in. Mutas has become such a horrible strategy lately, it really only works against protoss and sometimes zerg.

It's a risky idea to invest in mutas, really it's only a good strategy if you can use them to contain the other guy while you build...ultras? Hyper upgraded lings with infestors and mutas while waiting for terran to come out?

Mutas are only good if you catch the other guy with barely any anti-air

dude i play toss, and if they make zealot build time longer im going to have to go for a gateway sooner to stop ling rushes. and ling rushes are just too powerful at the bronze level anyways bc only people in like the top 7 or so know how to beat that rush. make the warp gate cool down longer, thats fine. but making zealot build time worse is not a great nerf. nerf build time on vrays if anything. dislike the zealot nerf a lot. i already have a disadvatange against reactor core marines and early ling rushes! and the upper level toss units (except for vrays imo) already take a long time to build. i mean i would use immortals a lot more if they wouldnt build so slow!

Mutas are only good if you catch the other guy with barely any anti-air

even then if toss has warp gates a few stalkers and a sentry rape mutas. they should improve their build time slightly. and it is weird, they were awesome for sniping in SC1.

The issue you're highlighting is the ling rush and while I can't provide any tips about stopping ling rushes except 2gating (sorry), however your argument indirectly highlights the issue with zerg, mid to late game.

Once you get your immortals out, once you get the big units out, you can hang with us if not beat us. Would I be incorrect in saying your problem with zerg gets significantly smaller as the game progresses?

The issue you're highlighting is the ling rush and while I can't provide any tips about stopping ling rushes except 2gating (sorry), however your argument indirectly highlights the issue with zerg, mid to late game.

Once you get your immortals out, once you get the big units out, you can hang with us if not beat us. Would I be incorrect in saying your problem with zerg gets significantly smaller as the game progresses?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOK6Wo1wsvw
Dimaga vs Morrow IEM

ZvT but still valid since you said its very hard to out macro terran as zerg.

The issue you're highlighting is the ling rush and while I can't provide any tips about stopping ling rushes except 2gating (sorry), however your argument indirectly highlights the issue with zerg, mid to late game.

Once you get your immortals out, once you get the big units out, you can hang with us if not beat us. Would I be incorrect in saying your problem with zerg gets significantly smaller as the game progresses?

oh yah. if i caqn hang on early i will win. except against a pretty good zerg player that rush slightly later. i think he 9 pooled and 14 hatched and then attacked none stop and expanded behind. had like 6 hatches. i was struggling to hold on and lost when he got some air. probably screwed myself by not having observers and he hurt me a lot with microing burrowed roaches. i almost killed him with suicide attacks of zealots but just could replace units as fast.


I think zerg players forget that if they just contain and expand they will rape. they always go for the cheese early. you have an advantage early, but you dont need to bomb so much early.

I would just contain and expo until you got like 4 then build a ton of hydors and roaches with overseers and ling support. thats hard to beat.


also funny story, i 9 plyon 12 gatted and out microed a ling rush, and then attacked with my probes and 2 zealots and won. it was a fun game. kinda felt like a reverse zerg rush almost!

haven't watched the link

hydras are awful, not cost-effective at all

how to beat roach hydra?

your little probe shield thing + stalkers+colossi, win

terran counter: tanks

was there a day9 daily last night? any idea when it gets uploaded to blip archives typically?

was there a day9 daily last night? any idea when it gets uploaded to blip archives typically?

day9 was commentating the games in MLG this weekend so no dailys

Day9 was saying he was going to try to record some extra videos on one day so he can have them ready, and then we'd have stuff to watch while he as doing that tournament thing right now. I guess he was too busy and we won't have videos for a little bit.

Anyways, here are my notes from the last two episodes:


Day9
166: You can make a Sentry first before a Stalker to kill a scout in your base since it's cheaper, control more Xel'Naga towers, Phoenix are a great scout, making Phoenix will delay opponent attacks since you can fly in and attack workers, attack gas workers more than mineral workers, Expand while attacking since it's easy to expand at that time(!), attack when it's most effective, worry less about counters and more about having more forces/workers(!), Worry less about getting upgrades and more about getting more units in early game, in late game the upgrades are very important though


167: Use constant aggression(!), expand often and while attacking(!), worry less about micro and counters and more about counters and building up general forces(!), Don't jump reapers up a cliff without sight, Adjust builds so the timings are good, use creep tumors fast as Zerg, don't suicide your reapers be patient, Control units from a group individually sometimes, make sure to build creep with overlords, Zerg can get two Hatcheries in main to get aggro in early game, When facing constant aggression you should out macro them and get small edges, you can defend vs reapers with many queens and spine colonies, Teching to Roaches then quickly to Mutalisks will fend of early Reaper attacks, you can also expand and attacking/not retreating with Zerglings to get them away

---

The ones with a (!) are the most important. I still like watching Crota's videos for fun. I guess I won't watch much Husky or HDStarcraft or AskJoshy videos for a while though.

I like N0whereman's advice. Here are the things that have really helped me a lot right now:
1. Constantly make workers and use economic boosters, although not at the expense of building an army unit
2. Always spend your resources so they are very low
3. Keep attacking, and this will be scouting, and you can expand while doing this

Good luck, Yojimgari

groups of hydras are still pretty good against air units. plus they are all purpose. weak or not i tend to favor all purpose without good scouting, more as toss bc it sucks when you have zealots and a colossis and one viking does a ton of damage (doesnt happen any more but when i first started this did happen and tilted the shit out of me). i mean asides from queens and spore crawlers it is their only decent movable AA. and their range isnt too bad. put some meat shield lings and roaches in front and they do a ton of damage

groups of hydras are still pretty good against air units. plus they are all purpose. weak or not i tend to favor all purpose without good scouting, more as toss bc it sucks when you have zealots and a colossis and one viking does a ton of damage (doesnt happen any more but when i first started this did happen and tilted the shit out of me). i mean asides from queens and spore crawlers it is their only decent movable AA. and their range isnt too bad. put some meat shield lings and roaches in front and they do a ton of damage

edits being lame, clearly i mean spore colonies. i dont play zerg but just trying to give ideas

I like Day9's advice of sticking to basic units and expansions more than expected. I keep updating my notes, and I have them on a piece of paper I keep in front of me while playing. Here are my new ones:

Defense/Micro:
!Constantly spend money
!Constantly use Chrono Boost
!Focus on army, then workers, then upgrades, then defense buildings
-Constantly build army and army buildings
-Constantly train workers
-Get upgrades and their buildings at the right time
-Get resource/perimeter defense buildings sometimes
-Get tier 2 units and upgrades at the right time
-Counter opponent's army
-Expand at the right times, usually while attacking
-Build enough pylons

Attacking:
!Attack more
!Scout more
-Attack workers more
-Capture the Xel'Naga towers

I put ! before the critical ones. I'm continuing to play, watch some of my losing replays, update my notes, and watch Day9 and Crota videos. I also check this thread, re-read some of my strategy guide, and will read more of Starcraft2.com

What is your favorite race? What are your favorite units and unit mix? I haven't really used much advanced Protoss units yet. I'm just focusing on Zealot, Stalker, Sentry, with some mid game Observer and Colossus backup, generally, depending on what happens in the match.

Have you used the Hallucinate magic much? I find myself not using it. I just put on some Guardian Shields before a battle, then move my Sentries closer to the right place in the front while attacking, then do some Force Fields or more Guardian Shields. I actually am not even researching this Hallucinate magic, am I underusing it? How important is upgrading Charge for Zealots? Good luck, Yojimgari