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Buddy of mine just got laid off from investment company....called into office at 2pm for 'surprise' meeting...hands in laptop..hand in badge...escorted to desk...clear it...out by 3pm.

His wife works for Royal Bank of Scotland...so things could go jobless x2 anytime now.

I acknowledged the economy of the US as unsound and structural changes were needed, and that the price of money is distorted in my 1st and 2nd posts in this thread; so you can't say I wish to "ignore and carry on as usual" but here we go:

did u watch them? what did u think?

I'm interested in what messiah has to say aboutr it, considering he works in the trading markets. (if i remember correctly)

For those of you wanting a non political message, simply skip the aaron russo film. For a very basic understanding, watch "money as debt". For an in depth history of money lending and interest and private banking watch "the money masters".

Then read perfecteconomy.com

To wrap it all up, or alternatively, as a starting point, watch the "Crash Course".

You will either a) have a paradigm shift about money b) ignore all information contained and carry on as usual

I've seen various youtube theories, one being Money as Debt and declined to view the sequel "Money Masters" due to Money as Debt's morality regarding usury, government control of inflation (yay, let's mint Free Silver! and have laymen voting for currencies) and how 'evil' fractional reserve banking is. Also the simple analysis therein regarding government debt vs currency is misleading. But the highlighting of the currency of money as debt is an important one and I credit the Money as Debt show for outlining a colorful 'education' on banking and money. Also note that I am in favor of hard money as I alluded too in my 2nd post.

Not that I approve/agree with that much of the modern expansionary practices re: the Fed.

But the fact is, modern economic growth (and recessions) is built upon the foundation of fractional reserve banking with advantages and disadvantages which we could write a few books about. If you personally don't approve of banks loaning futures you can easily stick your money in a safety deposit box. Interest bearing savings accounts, granted, are less honest than actual deposit certificates to the average layman. Abolishing fractional reserve banking would greatly slow capital formation. And sure, reserve requirements at 10% currently may be too low as it allows exponential credit growth in concert with actual money supply growth by the Fed, but in this armchair I don't know exactly. We do need a well regulated fractional reserve banking system to stimulate growth not restricted by loans from real assets.

RE: PerfectEconomy TM sorry but I read this propanganda:

PEOPLE For Mathematically Perfected Economyâ„¢ (PFMPEâ„¢) : mathematically perfected economyâ„¢ (MPEâ„¢) is the singular integral solution to 1) inflation and deflation, 2) systemic manipulation of the cost or value of money or property, and 3) inherent, irreversible multiplication of debt in proportion to a vital circulation, engendering inevitable systemic failure at a finite system lifespan defined by an inevitable, terminal sum of insoluble debt. Mathematically Perfected Economyâ„¢ is every prospective debtor's right to issue their promise to pay, free of extrinsic manipulation, adulteration, or exploitation of that promise, or the natural opportunity to make good on it.

No economics, just morality, buzzwords and PROVEN PERFECT MATHS!

Maybe they do have some solid arguments within but I lol'd after reading that so I'm not going to bother reading further without a good reason at the moment. I also didn't bother watching the Freedom to Fascism video due to it's silly title and likely content. I think the burden would be on you to describe the arguments and conclusions therein rather than just say manipulation, WAKE UP!

FINAL EDIT: this post was written before I saw the last 2 posts

Join the army, no lay offs. Just a thought.

I can see why you can be put off by it all, and it isnt nice knowing that essentially this system is destined for insoluble collapse, and a collapse by design, however I'd have to say that the perfecteconomy.com and chismartensons "Crash Course" http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse should be considered as required reading in order to have an informed debate on this issue.

The authors of these two sites are extremely intelligent, far more so that I. It is clear that the sites have been a result of a life's work for these two guys, and it would be a dis service to them to simply brush it over.

As for the 'money masters', it is not connected to 'money as debt' or a follow up as you put it, rather it is an in depth 3 hour documentary about the history of money and the long (ongoing) struggle between the wishes of the founders and that of the private bankers. To illustrate this point, take into account these quotes from very famous americans and philosophers http://www.perfecteconomy.com/pg-relevant-historic-quotes.html

I only wish to get some understanding from my viewpoints, and I invite you to read the websites provided in order so that you may understand where I am coming from.

Finally : "In economics, the majority are always wrong. [Less protectively, contemporary "economists" lie because the whole, purposed lie of usury and unearned taking is unsustainable in any practical implementation, and because therefore, no intelligent public would ever assent to the dispossession and usurpation which the lies are designed to impose upon them. Thus...] The study of "money," above all other fields, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it."

John Kenneth Galbraith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith

I'm not going to discuss the links already posted in this thread other than to say I'm skeptical of the information presented. Alternatively, if you support the dissolution of the Fed and a return to a truly free market economy, check out the Mises Institute (http://www.mises.org) and some of their works. Here is the seminal introduction to free market economics, "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt. It was originally published just after WW2, and has been updated since but I can't remember when.

http://jim.com/econ/

Economics is haunted by more fallacies than any other study known to man. This is no accident. The inherent difficulties of the subject would be great enough in any case, but they are multiplied a thousandfold by a factor that is insignificant in, say, physics, mathematics or medicine-the special pleading of selfish interests. While every group has certain economic interests identical with those of all groups, every group has also, as we shall see, interests antagonistic to those of all other groups. While certain public policies would in the long run benefit everybody, other policies would benefit one group only at the expense of all other groups. The group that would benefit by such policies, having such a direct interest in them, will argue for them plausibly and persistently. It will hire the best buyable minds to devote their whole time to presenting its case. And it will finally either convince the general public that its case is sound, or so befuddle it that clear thinking on the subject becomes next to impossible.

what company LaRue? out of curiousity.

and why are u talking about this guy like he is dead or smth. he'll jump right on track in no time!

Maybe they do have some solid arguments within but I lol'd after reading that so I'm not going to bother reading further without a good reason at the moment. I also didn't bother watching the Freedom to Fascism video due to it's silly title and likely content. I think the burden would be on you to describe the arguments and conclusions therein rather than just say manipulation, WAKE UP!

This is along the lines of how I feel towards these sites. They are mostly ridden with propaganda, quotes and irrelevant history while lacking actual tangible solutions. I am not sure if Acombfosho understands the primary objective for the authors creating the sites and videos he has linked.

Sure there are problems with the current fed and monetary structure, but in the few actual solutions presented it is clear that they have no idea why we are in the current situation. This makes spending more time than a quick browse of these sites a huge waste of time.

I can't, and particularly do not want to debate about these issues because the supporters are so deeply engulfed in these 'movements' that it becomes an endless and pointless cycle.

hey messiah, and the rest. I can see why some of the films tinged with politics are off putting. Please consider watching the first few episodes of "crash course", http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse - the guy has a PHD and used to be Vice President of a large, international Fortune 300 company. He gave it all up to dedicate himself to this! His videos are so clear about explaining so many things I hardly ever knew about, using the governments own documents and historic records to show his case.

As you said, its pretty pointless having this debate if you are unwilling to look at the other side of the argument. Watch the first three episodes (all three-five mins long, then decide if you are willing to watch any more. - I think you'd be pleasently surprised.

I was laid off back in November and the market is absolutely flooded with people looking for jobs, especially in my area (Bay Area, Cali). There appear to be tons of jobs, but really there are not as many as one would think by looking through job boards or company sites. I have applied to probably ~50 jobs (35 I am well qualified for, 15 over qualified, and 5 or so I took a flier at). and I have heard back from 3! Yes, 3. It is frustrating when your happy to get any email back even if it says "Meh, you suck, don't ever apply again!" LOL

In this area, it's not "Will I be laid off", but "When will I be laid off". I'm not talking just right now, but the Silicon Valley at basically anytime. During the boom in the mid-late 90s, tons of companies were having massive layoffs and restructuring left and right.

I know several people laid off, and they are all solid, bright, experience, and hard working engineers ranging from developers to middle management to corporate VPs.

I was at my previous company for 9 years, and thankfully I received a nice severance package, but it was still a nice kick in the crotch.

Things will get better over time... we all just got to wait it out unfortunately.

My question is, wait it out for what? What are we waiting for to happen that will make everything "OK"?

Did the world stop producing everything it was producing before? or did something synthetic (like a private bank controlling the monetary supply of the worlds base currency) have anything to do with this?

if you want to take a shot at understanding this try the crash course http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

I think that it is truly scary but vitally important to understand. As I said, this guy was a Vice President of a large international fortune 300 company who gave it up to tour America and the world to teach this stuff! He's been talking about what is happening now for the past 4 years in his seminars. What the crash course is is a condensed down overview of his 8 hour seminar into 20 small parts.

Please watch this vid Messiah, as I'd really appreciate your perspective on the information he presents as you are personally involded in the industry.. and I think that you know more about it than I do... and could point out where/if he is wrong.

Either case, this issue (a seriously bad economy) isnt going to go away. And Obama, or any other politician, isnt going to be able to do anything to be able to stop it... we are due for a MASSIVE fallout... bigger than the 1930s