General Discussion Poker Forums

ClicktyClick's detailed response to my question.

Thanks for your detailed explanations man.

I heard poker was already solved. I mean, there's no money HU afaik. Everyone's solid.

What does "solved" mean, exactly? Especially given:

4) Playing perfect GTO HULHE is not the most profitable way to play under most game conditions.

Well I guess you can interpret solved on different levels. The one I was thinking about is where pretty much EVERYONE KNOWS what theoretically speaking the best line is in any given situation. We´re already getting very close to that imo meaning leveling is prob. getting more important I guess?

Well I guess you can interpret solved on different levels. The one I was thinking about is where pretty much EVERYONE KNOWS what theoretically speaking the best line is in any given situation. We´re already getting very close to that imo meaning leveling is prob. getting more important I guess?

Everybody is a lot of people. And we are not even remotely close atm - In my opinion.

What does "solved" mean, exactly? Especially given:

In a theoretic sense, an 'optimal' strategy is a strategy that can't lose, regardless of what you opponent does. It is not the strategy that aims to win as much as possible against a specific opponent. For that, you'd need to make a lot of vague assumptions about your opponent's strategy -- which is basically pure speculation.

What Zuberi means (I think) is more like the second -- a strategy where every decision is based on some kind of semi-logical thought process. This is what you see in videos; it's a far cry from the 'optimal' equilibrium strategy though.

A solution only exists in the game space where stack sizes are the same. So even if some equilibrium solution is reached for 6m NLHE with 100BB, you can just move to the deep tables and play an unsolved game.

Or just play PLO--that shit will never get solved.

As long as we have donkaments, we shall be saved!

ClicktyClick makes some really good points imo.

I think that it might time a very very long time before 6max poker gets solved. If i'm correct it's at the moment not even clear if a GTO strategy exists for multiway games.

I do think that computers will be able to play HU LHE at a word class level in the not so distant future, lets say 5 years or so. The polaris poker bot seems to be pretty solid already, and with an exponential increase in computing power it's just a matter of time before it becomes really good. Will take longer before it can play really GTO, but not impossible. Big bet and deep stack poker games seem to be far to complex for computers for now.

Wow 'Poker getting solved'
I realy didnt ever expect to see this thread on here.

Poker is and ever changing game.
As KRANTZ calls it,' A Constantly Metamorphosing creature'.

This game will never be solved.
Indeed, to an extent we could say that good winning players have poker solved for now, at the state it is atm.

But it will change again.
And if we want to keep solving poker we must move with it.
If your beating a particcular game right now, and you leave it.
Come back to that game a couple of years later and you will see how its changed.

It might feel like we are moving towards solving poker, when in fact all we are relly doing is dancing with poker.
Every strategy will have a counter strategy and, everyone is exploitable to some extent.

All we can do is move with it and feed off it .
Solving is for chess players imo.

Well they said that Chess couldn't be solved either..

I think that it might time a very very long time before 6max poker gets solved. If i'm correct it's at the moment not even clear if a GTO strategy exists for multiway games.

I think it has been proven that it doesn't exist such GTO strategies. The problem is that in multiplayer games 2 players may co-operate to beat the third. And they could do this without showing eachother what cards they have.

For example if the victim is between the two colluters the first one can bet into him and the second may choose to raise a range that is good given he cares about the expectation for both players and not his own.

Now this is illegal obv. But it presents a theoretical problem since it means there are no unexploitable strategy. And one can't make natural rules to prevent the players from doing this, because they may do it by chance (since they haven't shared any information).

So no equillibrium for multi-way exists.

Of course there exists a Nash equilibrium for 6max poker. That's exactly what Nash's result proved.

The collusion argument doesn't make sense

As KRANTZ calls it,' A Constantly Metamorphosing creature'.
.

I don't think that's a Krantz quote

We already did this 8 months ago... This thread just started up all over again...

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/4-General-Discussion/23003-How-long-will-poker-last-