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Invented a new poker variant with a 4-card hand ranking system and 3 streets

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Schweig

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1210 posts
Joined 10/2008

So I spent the last few hours thinking about what makes a good poker variant, and I came up with what I think is quite an interesting game. Of course, it is nigh on impossible to make a game popular, but I think it's really interesting to think about how a hypothetical game would play.

Each player gets 2 down cards like in Hold'em. First betting round is pre-flop. Second betting round is a 2-card flop. Third betting round is a 1-card river. Players must make the best 4 card hand, which are ranked like this:

Quads
Straight Flush
Trips
Straight
Two Pair
Flush
High Badugi
One Pair
High Card

The main things I like about this game is that the board is very dynamic. The removal of the 1-card turn means that each street changes a significant amount, which I think is a main reason why Hold'em is boring (and why getting it in on the flop often becomes the optimal play in PLO)

There are a very high amount of viable draws in this game too, that can lead to more aggression, but also means the ranges will swap equity more often, which makes decisions a lot more interesting. Some examples of viable draws.

Hero has AhAd and is facing action on a 5h4h board. It's possible to have the best hand still, but also possible to have a several number of outs, such as pairing the board, making the nut flush or making trips. However, it is very possible that some or all of these outs are dead if opponent has a straight, set or straight flush. Meanwhile, Villain can very easily be semi-bluffing with something like 6h5d, with a fair amount of straight, flush, two pair and trip outs.

The introduction of Badugi means that a lot of hands have a completely new viable way of catching up, as they are quite common. I think they are more interesting version of flushes in Hold'em, as they are more frequent, more often run into each other, and much more vulnerable. A badugi is never the nuts, but still fairly strong.

It also gives value to hands like ace high which are lost in Hold'em, particularly as the pair mechanic means the boards that hit them are more static and, I guess, scary. AKo will still retain lots of viable draws in this version, as well as having less transparency on flops. You've gotta be more often worried now that opponent flops a good badugi on a completely random board.

Hero has flopped the 2nd nut badugi with KdJh on a 5s9c board. However, the river can introduce a flush, a paired board, a straight or even a third rainbow card to give a lone Ar the best hand. He can also be beat by a set, higher badugi or two pair already. The stacks are deep and he is out of position facing a cbet, what's the best plan knowing that he may find it hard to bet a lot of rivers?

So far, one rough preflop estimation I've made is that 76o vs AA is 40% if his badugi is live. (However, making a low badugi with 76o brings its own fair share of trouble if opponent has your suits dominated with a non-paired hand, which will happen some of the time.) This closeness in preflop value, even with AA, reflects a good feature in PLO, in that you can 3-bet for value preflop but it created little fold equity and leads to a lot of interesting situations - it doesn't give all the power to the guy who 3-bet like in Hold'em and it certainly doesn't lead to a lot of raise/folding.

Also, what does this mean for hands for AKo. Are suited connectors really powerful, so much that they can be played strong preflop? What about lower pocket pairs, like JJ, or something like 88? The lack of strong improvements (hard to make badugis, straights, flushes and sets) cause them to be weaker in a way, but the fewer cards and fewer streets means it's much cheaper to get to showdown.

Overall, I think the game creates way more decisions for both players on all streets, giving them a mix of strong hands, draws, marginal showdown hands that can be played either fast, slow or not at all.

Anyone have any thoughts, about how strategy would play out, whether the game would actually work, if there are any real shortcomings, or anything else?

Posted about 1 year ago

ambtndplyr

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379 posts
Joined 02/2009

having the idea to have the idea as the idea itsself and the effort and thoughts behind it are pretty impressive and awesome

Posted about 1 year ago

mitch

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2031 posts
Joined 01/2008

Schweig

Avatar for Schweig

1210 posts
Joined 10/2008

having the idea to have the idea as the idea itsself and the effort and thoughts behind it are pretty impressive and awesome



Thanks. I wanted a game with 3 streets and a completely new hand ranking that was geared for NL/PL and this was the first I actually came up with. It happened to actually be quite interesting so it was quite the fluke.

Something that's very inherent to this game is that all hands will have some way to improve at least somewhat. There are just so many different types of draws and all hands manage to have some kind of piece. Even if you have something like JJ on a 93o board, you could still have some sort of badugi draw that makes you not want to fold - you could still have the best hand, you could marginally improve or you could significantly improve. There's a lot of outcomes.

Just take the 95o flop and see how many draws there could be. So many straight draws, two flush draws, badugi draws, board pair draws etc. This could make multi-way action really interesting, which is something that is often discouraged by good play in both NL and PLO, just because of the lack of viable hands/draws.

Posted about 1 year ago

BaseMetal

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2060 posts
Joined 01/2010

Quads
Straight Flush
Trips
Straight
Two Pair
Flush
High Badugi
One Pair
High Card


Hi, I am not sure if the hand ranking are done this way for a particular game reason but here is a list of the standard ranking for 4 card poker hands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_card_poker#Rank_of_hands
I haven't checked this order but I assume these are in the order of most likely to least.

Posted about 1 year ago

Schweig

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1210 posts
Joined 10/2008

Thanks. I hadn't seen that. I based mine off # of combinations, although straight, two pair and flush are very close. Here is a (badly formatted) list of combinations out of 270,725 and percentages:

Quads 13 0.004801921%
Straight Flush 44 0.016252655%
Trips 2496 0.921968788%
Straight 2772 1.023917259%
Two Pair 2808 1.037214886%
Flush 2816 1.040169914%
High Badugi 17160 6.338535414%
One Pair 82368 30.424969988%

I even toyed with the idea that straight, two pair and flush have some sort of non-transitive rock paper scissors system where each loses to one and wins against another, but it would be too complicated in practice, and kinda gimmicky.

In terms of making an interesting game though, I feel the ordering of flush, straight and two pair is still up for debate. Perhaps flush > straight > two pair is better though, because suited cards have actually suffered a lot from the introduction of badugi.

On the other hand, basing the ordering on the commonalities of this version might screw it up for other formats, and then you'd have to have order inconsistency. So I'm just sticking to the % chance for now as some sort of baseline.

Posted about 1 year ago

Plutoman

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249 posts
Joined 05/2010

having the idea to have the idea as the idea itsself and the effort and thoughts behind it are pretty impressive and awesome


Totally agree. Badugi (which never would have occurred to me to include in a flop game except as a split-pot variant) is the pièce de résistance I think.

How about adding a straight badugi (between straight flush and trips)?

Posted about 1 year ago

Schweig

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1210 posts
Joined 10/2008

Totally agree. Badugi (which never would have occurred to me to include in a flop game except as a split-pot variant) is the pièce de résistance I think.

How about adding a straight badugi (between straight flush and trips)?



Yeah I did consider that. I thought it affects so little situations it doesn't matter too much either way, and eventually decided to keep it out because I wanted to streamline the rankings as much as possible and leave badugi, the new concept, as its own separate thing.

I thought of Badugi because after working out the probabilities, there really needed to be something between pair and flush, otherwise hands would just be way too static with 3 board cards. Badugi was a natural 4-card idea, and it ended up being the perfect frequency for it.

A major problem I've actually thought of though, is that Badugi is very hard to see, especially without a four colour deck, This might just be because we're very used to the traditional hand rankings, but either way, it would create a significant barrier to entry for the game.

Posted about 1 year ago




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