Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

When you give him QQ to his range or even more hands like Q4s (1 combo), then he has 6-7 or even more value hands OTR and you are still call happy? Given this assumption he has to overbet shove AT LEAST 5 combos, do you think it is possible, have you ever seen this before?

In this spot try and not focus on his range but your range....

Your range is really weak, and if you are folding this you are only calling 66 (he may have a blocker to it?) and some combos of 77/QQ which both may have 3bet pre. Your calling range on this river is basically non existant if you fold this. If you start snap folding flushes (which ppl do here) his river bet becomes super +EV.

EDIT: If yo uare looking for some bluffs. Any Ad especially with a 6 or 7, people like to think this is a good bluffing hand.

In this spot try and not focus on his range but your range....

Your range is really weak, and if you are folding this you are only calling 66 (he may have a blocker to it?) and some combos of 77/QQ which both may have 3bet pre. Your calling range on this river is basically non existant if you fold this. If you start snap folding flushes (which ppl do here) his river bet becomes super +EV.

EDIT: If yo uare looking for some bluffs. Any Ad especially with a 6 or 7, people like to think this is a good bluffing hand.

This is a good explanation.

I actually snap called his river shove. No surprise

This is a good explanation.

I actually snap called his river shove. No surprise

And he had it?

And he had it?

77, ldo

I can see folding here if your opponent is a nit or is a certain type of abc bad reg. Otherwise I think you kinda have to call because your range looks really weak here.

In this spot try and not focus on his range but your range....

Your range is really weak, and if you are folding this you are only calling 66 (he may have a blocker to it?) and some combos of 77/QQ which both may have 3bet pre. Your calling range on this river is basically non existant if you fold this. If you start snap folding flushes (which ppl do here) his river bet becomes super +EV.

EDIT: If yo uare looking for some bluffs. Any Ad especially with a 6 or 7, people like to think this is a good bluffing hand.

Hold up, if we're 3betting 77+ preflop then please tell me how our perceived range is weak when we check/call, check/call? On the river we're holding 4x or a flush as the bottom of our range ... I actually think folding is legitimate here, regardless of balance, but I'm certain I'd never be able to do it in game myself.

@OP, did he have 77 with a diamond? That turn barrel is lose as hell without one.

7 7 without any diamonds. I dunno what he was thinking.

Well, I guess he assumed his showdown value was no good vs your check/calling range and decided to turn his hand into a bluff given the overcard and the diamond on the turn, it's logical albeit devoid of any equity for a redraw. If he checks behind the turn he has to check/fold the river for certain, eh, I guess you have to add 77 as value combos just to be safe when you're making your calculations then. That's well weighted into being more value than I gave it credit for.

great villain to be bluff raising on turn scare cards....

Hold up, if we're 3betting 77+ preflop then please tell me how our perceived range is weak when we check/call, check/call?

because we dont have as many full houses..

So he's seriously overbet bluffing into flushes ever? IDK man, that's really thin logic, and I don't think anyone at these stakes actually thinks that way in real time.

So he's seriously overbet bluffing into flushes ever? IDK man, that's really thin logic, and I don't think anyone at these stakes actually thinks that way in real time.

We dont have the many flushes either since we c/r those on the turn a lot. Our range is seriously pair orientated, some flushes and very very little full house. People do crazy shit aswell as misclicking which makes this never a fold.

Uh, I'm more or less certain we should never be check/raising a flush on the turn here, think about it longer and you'll see what I mean.

I just don't buy the "we can't have many flushes because we would've check/raised those on the flop as a semi-bluff (on a paired board?) or check/raised them on the turn as a value raise (when he reps over cards with "air" effectively).

Our range is like the first nuts, the second or the third nuts here when you think about it.

while I agree, that we probably should not raise a flush on the turn, I am pretty sure that a lot of people do, and therefore expect hero to c/r turn sometimes. Also, I still think that most people c/r most non A high FDs on the flop. Therefore, we have very little flushes on the river. Also, our range contains tons of low PP with , some bare 6x, and tons of Ax type hands, also some KQ flop floats.
So if we fold this, we are actually folding > 90% of our range.

On the other hand I also doubt that many regs at nl 200 actually recognize that in game, and actually bluff like that. But I feel calling the little boat combos we have and folding flushs can't be that bad.

The perceived weakness in the range is debatable, vs a min-raise at 200nl I'd imagine 88+ is being 3bet for value and 77 completes a full house on the river.

The worst hand in our range is trips?

I really, really dislike arguments that eliminate value combos from perceived ranges based entirely on the misconception that X flush draw combos check/raise the flop on a paired, board X flushes check/raise the turn on an over card for value and therefore we have "few" flush draws in our range. That is not how constructing ranges works, because A) it's illogical to check/raise flush draws on a low, paired board because we can't represent a real value range (4x is at most 44, A4s and 54s) and B) if the opponent barrels over cards aggressively then our flush has more value as a bluff catcher. These turn into selective arguments where you don't properly weigh the odds against you because you think combos exist statically in one line when they exist dynamically in multiple lines and come up with fuzzy numbers in your favor every time.

Edit: Actually if we're defending a min-raise, I imagine A4o and K4s are possible as well, so maybe we can rep more than I thought.