StackHunter
2650 posts
Joined 09/2010
18:30 - KK
Flop
Bet $6 or $6.50 vs fish.
Turn
Again, sizing should have been bigger imo, regardless of your stack sizes.
Passive fish -> x/mr -> fold and deal the next hand 
As played you have to call, because river is the best card for you (you beat all two pair). But still I would just go ahead and fold the turn w/o reads telling me that he might be spewing.
Posted 11 months ago
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Crackmonkey
599 posts
Joined 06/2009
18:30 - KK
Flop
Bet $6 or $6.50 vs fish.
Turn
Again, sizing should have been bigger imo, regardless of your stack sizes.
Passive fish -> x/mr -> fold and deal the next hand 
As played you have to call, because river is the best card for you (you beat all two pair). But still I would just go ahead and fold the turn w/o reads telling me that he might be spewing.
Yea bet sizing is just due to playing a bunch of tables and clicking 2/3 pot or whatever because it's faster. I do agree that we can size bigger against this player.
I don't agree that we have to call the river just because the river is a "good card." His bet sizing on the river suggests otherwise to me. I don't think his 2 pair hands that we're now ahead of play this way.
Posted 11 months ago
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StackHunter
2650 posts
Joined 09/2010
Cut down on the number of the tables you play 
I don't agree that we have to call the river just because the river is a "good card." His bet sizing on the river suggests otherwise to me. I don't think his 2 pair hands that we're now ahead of play this way.
But you are inconsistent with your plan. You bet the turn, fish x/mr you and you call. You call because you think you are ahead of his range, but of course you give him all sets, two pair, etc.
On this river you beat almost everything (Q4 x/r on the flop) besides 4 combos of boats/quads, so you can't fold given assumptions you have made on the turn. This often leads to mistakes, which may result in sloping redline.
Regarding his bet sizing, he would have bet his two pair with the same amount, probably the with bluffs too.
Posted 11 months ago
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Crackmonkey
599 posts
Joined 06/2009
Cut down on the number of the tables you play 
But you are inconsistent with your plan. You bet the turn, fish x/mr you and you call. You call because you think you are ahead of his range, but of course you give him all sets, two pair, etc.
On this river you beat almost everything (Q4 x/r on the flop) besides 4 combos of boats/quads, so you can't fold given assumptions you have made on the turn. This often leads to mistakes, which may result in sloping redline.
Regarding his bet sizing, he would have bet his two pair with the same amount, probably the with bluffs too.
In retrospect, I think the turn is just a fold. There's nothing wrong with making a turn mistake, then re-analyzing what's gone on and adjusting what you think your opponent's range is to keep from making an even bigger river mistake.
I'm not concerned so much with what cards are on the board here or how many combos of what villain can have. It's more about the particular player type. I don't feel that this type of player ever shows up with a bluff on the river, and I don't think they will value bet queens up when the board pairs 4s mostly due to an irrational fear of me having a 4.
A lot of this I am basing on my experience with these types of players in these types of situations.
Posted 11 months ago
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SpewKid
575 posts
Joined 02/2008
matzy85
1 posts
Joined 11/2010
Preflop he can have any combo of QT and probably Q5s and Q4s. I would throw out the offsuit combos. I think he can certainly be check/minraising any of those 2 pair combos on the turn, but the issue I have is on the river when the 4 comes. I think even a guy like this at least can understand that the 4 counterfeits Q5 and QT. I would expect him to size down his bets with those hands, and continue strong with boats. He may even check the 2 pair hands when the 4 comes.
I dissagree to the fact that a fish would recognize the counterfitting part, and i believe this is a clear call, he could take this line with any kind of spadedraw that has any connection on the flop A2 A3 A4 A5 AJ AQ maybe even 67 68 sometimes
Posted 10 months ago
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Crackmonkey
599 posts
Joined 06/2009
Good to see you making videos again.
Is it too nitty to just fold TT preflop here? If we don't hit a set, it seems like we're hoping villain has AK or AQ and decides not to barrel.
I see what you're saying, but I think our implied odds are a bit more favorable given villain's tighter preflop range. I think we're more apt to be able to play for stacks if we do hit against all of his overpairs.
It is one of those annoying spots where you call the flop on a non A or K flop, then hope villain shuts down so you can check down and win.
My turn call was pure stubbornness here and I was probably tired or really annoyed at the time. It's good to let others learn from my mistakes though. If you do think you're apt to make stubborn plays postflop, folding pre might be better as it will keep you from making those mistakes.
Posted 10 months ago
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Crackmonkey
599 posts
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I dissagree to the fact that a fish would recognize the counterfitting part, and i believe this is a clear call, he could take this line with any kind of spadedraw that has any connection on the flop A2 A3 A4 A5 AJ AQ maybe even 67 68 sometimes
If villain had check/raised a larger amount on the turn I'd get behind this argument, but I just don't think villain is check minraising the turn with any draws.
Posted 10 months ago
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ThinkingQuest
3 posts
Joined 07/2012
This is the 1st video I've seen after I become a DC member. Good video though. And Crackmonkey, I saw you discuss with people here, thanks for your video.
The last hand, I was surprised to see the fishy opponent shows 55. I thought even a fish knows this is not a good flop to slow play, I thought most likely the turn Q helped him. Hmm, such a weird play and size by him.
Posted 10 months ago
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Crackmonkey
599 posts
Joined 06/2009
This is the 1st video I've seen after I become a DC member. Good video though. And Crackmonkey, I saw you discuss with people here, thanks for your video.
The last hand, I was surprised to see the fishy opponent shows 55. I thought even a fish knows this is not a good flop to slow play, I thought most likely the turn Q helped him. Hmm, such a weird play and size by him.
Welcome to DC!
Usually the fish is afraid of making you fold if they make it bigger, so they do this little maneuver to try to make sure they make something with their big hands.
Posted 10 months ago
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Crackmonkey
599 posts
Joined 06/2009
Results:
1) TT - I folded, and I'm sure it was the correct play.
2) KT - I called and got owned by JJ. Against some players, calling down 3 streets is definitely correct, but this isn't one of the.
3) AJ - I called and villain showed 66.
4) Results revealed in video.
Posted 10 months ago
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pickpokkit
412 posts
Joined 09/2011
Great video.
Disagree totally with your logic on the KK hand. sure you were beat and fish do min raise set on turn, but in my experience it depends on the specific fish, and there are plenty out there who play the min raise to rep sets, with straight and flush draws, top pair, everything really.
Agree with above the pairing of the board means you beat a % of his value x raising range - its a call by virtue of your relative hand strength.
Posted 10 months ago
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which
1116 posts
Joined 09/2009
I dissagree to the fact that a fish would recognize the counterfitting part, and i believe this is a clear call, he could take this line with any kind of spadedraw that has any connection on the flop A2 A3 A4 A5 AJ AQ maybe even 67 68 sometimes
Come on in, the water's fine!
Bout time you stopped lurking Matzy 
Which
Posted 10 months ago
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Crackmonkey
599 posts
Joined 06/2009
Great video.
Disagree totally with your logic on the KK hand. sure you were beat and fish do min raise set on turn, but in my experience it depends on the specific fish, and there are plenty out there who play the min raise to rep sets, with straight and flush draws, top pair, everything really.
Agree with above the pairing of the board means you beat a % of his value x raising range - its a call by virtue of your relative hand strength.
I didn't have any specific reads on this particular player, so I treated him as your average fish. In my experience, which may be somewhat dependent on the sites that I've played on, this line tends to be a really strong hand more often than top pair or a draw.
There are certainly players out there than will take this line as a bluff, with top pair, and hands weaker than what I had, but in the absence of any player-specific knowledge at all that would cause me to lean in that direction, I would go with my personal experience and gut feel, which is exactly the opposite of what I did in the video.
Posted 10 months ago
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OranRai
59 posts
Joined 02/2010