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Improva why have you decided to flat your entire 3B range OOP?

Was it on the basis of this one hand:

Just few hands ago he opened 2 bb (160 bb deep), I 3b him to 8 bb with TT, he min 4b to 28 bb and I flatted OOP. Flop was 342tt, I check, he insta bets 3/4, I call. Turn was putting another FD on the board and he insta bet full pot. I folded.

I think people can often lie to themselves about their own range in spots, e.g. here they will say well I would flat KK+,AK here but in reality they don't.

nice post btw

Improva why have you decided to flat your entire 3B range OOP?

Was it on the basis of this one hand:


I think people can often lie to themselves about their own range in spots, e.g. here they will say well I would flat KK+,AK here but in reality they don't.

nice post btw

Otherwise I would not flat AQs.. I agree with you that people lie to themselves about their own range. But that is _really_ something they need to fix. Otherwise they will only be able to take money from fish.

Yeah I understand to flat AQ you need to flat AK,QQ+ , but I mean what would prompt you to flat KK or QQ in this spot vs said villain if you had them instead of AQs? that one hand history that OP posted?

Yeah I understand to flat AQ you need to flat AK,QQ+ , but I mean what would prompt you to flat KK or QQ in this spot vs said villain if you had them instead of AQs? that one hand history that OP posted?

If I have a flatting range in this situation I normally don't have a 5bet range. So the question is really.. Do I have a flatting range.

Thanks for replying,
Ok, so why would you choose to have a flatting range here, given the information OP has given?

Given reads - Seems like a really simple:

Call 4bet. Cc flop and cf turn.

All his numbers/reads mean he just isnt bluffing the turn often enough.

EDIT: I disagree with improva about having a 5bet range.I think you should have a 5bet range and AQs should never really be in it. I think balancing in these spots just isnt that important (since it super rarely happens and he will never get full info from you in this spot) but if you want to be balanced 5bet AA/KK/QQ/AK and air can still be balanced.

Given reads - Seems like a really simple:

Call 4bet. Cc flop and cf turn.

All his numbers/reads mean he just isnt bluffing the turn often enough.

EDIT: I disagree with improva about having a 5bet range.I think you should have a 5bet range and AQs should never really be in it. I think balancing in these spots just isnt that important (since it super rarely happens and he will never get full info from you in this spot) but if you want to be balanced 5bet AA/KK/QQ/AK and air can still be balanced.

It has nothing to do with balance.

Either this hand is super trivial... or we can use it to learn something.

You 3bet because you think it has a higher EV than calling. Flatting the 4bet is pretty std. You should likely flat your entire range when 4bet.

I agree with you about everything postflop.

I was just talking about this........ we can def have a 5bet range.

That then means AQ becomes better, and not so much at the bottom of our range.

I agree with you about everything postflop.

I was just talking about this........ we can def have a 5bet range.

That then means AQ becomes better, and not so much at the bottom of our range.

Sure we can. But if we are calling with AQ on the turn... we really shouldn't

All his numbers/reads mean he just isnt bluffing the turn often enough.

His aggression on the T is similar to the F. Read about him c-betting with 'one and done' pattern is also not confirmed, that's why I put a question mark next to it.

Either this hand is super trivial... or we can use it to learn something.

If it was trivial I wouldn't have posted it


For me, this player looked like an ultra loose aggro spazzy maniac and I wasn't able to give him credit for a better hand 2nd time in a row. Maybe my reasoning is not right, but his image, his line and his timing - all of these made me end up calling.

Results: Villain showed ATo, river bricked off and I won.

If I have a flatting range in this situation I normally don't have a 5bet range. So the question is really.. Do I have a flatting range.

Why is that? It seems to me that in alot of different situations, it will be good to have both a 3b/5b range and a 3b/c range. For example, TAGs who 4b bluff way too often and only with Axo hands (and aren't good enough to 4b AQ for value); seems good to 3b/5b all PPs, seems good to call the 4b with AK-AT, along with hands like KQs, QJs and KJs that flop well on low SPRs, and AA-KK some of the time.

Am I doing it wrong?

If it was trivial I wouldn't have posted it


For me, this player looked like an ultra loose aggro spazzy maniac and I wasn't able to give him credit for a better hand 2nd time in a row. Maybe my reasoning is not right, but his image, his line and his timing - all of these made me end up calling.

Results: Villain showed ATo, river bricked off and I won.

If you were willing to make the assumption that villain is aggro spazzy maniac then I don't understand why you posted the hand.

EDIT: I disagree with improva about having a 5bet range.I think you should have a 5bet range and AQs should never really be in it. I think balancing in these spots just isnt that important (since it super rarely happens and he will never get full info from you in this spot) but if you want to be balanced 5bet AA/KK/QQ/AK and air can still be balanced.

What do you mean by

but if you want to be balanced 5bet AA/KK/QQ/AK and air can still be balanced.

Do you mean you can 5B premiums and still balance a 4B calling range or that you should 5B air (Axs) and premiums?


Also why isn't balance important? - I thought when people call a 4B they are perceived to mostly have AQ/KQs/TT-JJ . So even if he doesn't get full info from your range in this spot he's going to shade out or discount premiums heavily, so it doesn't help you if you don't ever show up with them.