Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

Villain is 31/25, opens BTN 72%, folds to 3bets 47% and 4bets 20% over 1k hands. In general he is pretty aggressive, not afraid to make moves postflop.

In the past I've been coming after his BTN opens quite a bit from the blinds, so he probably thinks my range for 3betting preflop is fairly wide in this situation.

Maybe worth mentioning is that he raises flops against me really light in position for value, since I have a tendency to not fold anything against him.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante

CO: $187.44
BTN: $296.79
Hero (SB): $449.25
BB: $329.80

Pre Flop: ($2.30) Hero is SB with 7 8
1 fold, BTN raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $10, 1 fold, BTN calls $7.50

Flop: ($21.80) 5 6 K (2 players)
Hero bets $12, BTN calls $12

Turn: ($45.80) K (2 players)
Hero bets $32, BTN raises to $94, Hero raises to $427.05 all in

What do you think about my shove? How about clicking it back instead?

ok first i don't play this limit. just wondering if it makes sense to have a 3bet-shoving range at all on the turn. his range for raising turn is pretty polarized and the board is really dry. so why would you ever 3bet-shove here if you had a hand? you get it in against worse made hands he raises on the turn anyway by the river but by 3bet shoving you prevent him from keeping to bluff. so you let him play perfectly.
a small 3bet seems to make more sense if you actually have a hand and think you can induce a shove or a float from his bluffs. but in this case inducing a shove from his bluffs seems bad because most bluffs are probably ahead of your hand
what was your reason for shoving? do you think he will raise air here often enough or make a thin value raise and fold to a shove?

First of all clicking it back accomplishes nothing. Villain will probably call with any hand he raised with and you will end up with 8 high OOP, not knowing what to do.
For a shove - well first thing you should think about is you are crushed by his value range. If you have been 3b light, there are enough KQ, KJ, KT and even slowplayed AK in his range that are not folding to make this a bad decision. Not to mension boats... And against this range you have what? Like 15% equity? Shoving 200bb in this situation seems speewy. He would need to have a lot of bluffs and raise/folding hands to make it a correct play. Never considered c/f or c/calling?
Although c/call is not the best either.

Hate the shove, clicking back obv not better because -> urb

When he raises the turn his range is way too strong. He has nothing worse than K10 in his range. And I guess he is more likely to hit the full on the turn. After you dont fold a K probably ever vs him (history...), he could just try to get it all in write now

i think because we are that deep and Villain is ip and he openend the BTN the range he gets to the flop with is pretty wide.
also i think you will get a good amount of calls from A high backdoor draws and medium pairs.
and the turn is not a great card for you to barrel so i think you will get some folds by the backdoor draws or A high he called the flop with.
so i think betting turn is really not that bad.
what would you think about overbetting the river if he just called the turn?
we have a read that he raises light for value so there is a good chance that he is on a bluffcatcher if he just calls flop and turn.
and it would allow us to have more bluffs in our range. so Villain cannot just snap us off because we have a wide 3betting range and a relatively wide range for getting to the river like that.
as played i would probably fold oop because we cannot really 3bet or 3bet shove and just calling does not really make sense as well oop unless we think he raises lot of air on the turn and is betting it on the river so we could go for a x/r but there is probably not enough money behind for that.

This is burning money. I would also bet the turn smaller. Even if you bet bigger on the turn and you river the straight you can't get it all in on the river because stack sizes are bad. You can get away cheaper in situations like this with a smaller bet on the turn. We should fold here on the turn.

I think the mistake is 3betting preflop here. Why are you 3betting a polarized range vs some guy who doesn't fold to 3b and like to make moves post flop? Doesn't that sound like a situation where you want to 3b a depolarized range so you can just flop TP and call down? What are you hoping to flop 3betting 78s deep that you're happy to see him raise/float you with?

what i don't like is you say he raises flops light, and he doesn't raise you otf. in all honesty when you said that and i saw a call then raising turn i just think it screams spazz induce. This turn thou, idk. Its basically does he have KX/ FB or not. i think he has those in his range and some weaker floats. what i dislike is we are so low equity wise that this shove needs a lot of random floats. Idk if it does. i think its up to you to try and guess at how often he bluff floats

Maybe worth mentioning is that he raises flops against me really light in position for value, since I have a tendency to not fold anything against him.

I don't have much experience playing this deep, but this seems like total spew to me. This might be fine vs. some villains who are out of control aggro. But here, it seems as if you and villain have an aggro dynamic going on post-flop, and he has already adjusted by widening his value range (he's probably also decreasing his bluffing frequency).

I ran some calcs, and given that villain r/c's with a range of 66,55,KT+, which we have ~15% equity against, we need him to fold at least 52% of the time to our shove for this to be +EV. I like betting the turn, but I think we should fold when he raises.

i think because we are that deep and Villain is ip and he openend the BTN the range he gets to the flop with is pretty wide.
also i think you will get a good amount of calls from A high backdoor draws and medium pairs.
and the turn is not a great card for you to barrel so i think you will get some folds by the backdoor draws or A high he called the flop with.

backdoor draws? ace high? how do these hands make any sense as a turn raise? they make even less sense as a turn raise/call

still, OP, this is pretty meh. your turn sizing is too big and i would way rather CIB/fold than this. you're NEVER getting rebluffed if you CIB and you risk a lot less $. i see your thinking, but for the odd times he's doing something retarded with KJ, i'd prefer CIB. in position i would simply flat turn.

I think the mistake is 3betting preflop here. Why are you 3betting a polarized range vs some guy who doesn't fold to 3b and like to make moves post flop? Doesn't that sound like a situation where you want to 3b a depolarized range so you can just flop TP and call down? What are you hoping to flop 3betting 78s deep that you're happy to see him raise/float you with?

this hand DOES raise good questions about what kind of a range you should 3bet. it's not as simple as polarized/depolarized.

we should think about a few things, here.

first, how does he play versus us IP here? raises flop? calls down? calls + folds later? this matters a lot and leads us to....

second, postflop playability. the kind of playability differs by opponent. pick hands that leave you the least vulnerable to their play style. in other words, don't 3bet 33 v someone who doesn't fold flops or preflop. or do so, but c/f w/o a set and win a lot when he spazzes.

third, balance. balance is particularly important
1) as stacks increase
2) OOP
3) as opponent skill level increases

backdoor draws? ace high? how do these hands make any sense as a turn raise? they make even less sense as a turn raise/call

still, OP, this is pretty meh. your turn sizing is too big and i would way rather CIB/fold than this. you're NEVER getting rebluffed if you CIB and you risk a lot less $. i see your thinking, but for the odd times he's doing something retarded with KJ, i'd prefer CIB. in position i would simply flat turn.

i probably didn't phrase clear enough sorry. i meant to say that Villains calling range on the flop might be pretty wide and therefore double barreling from heros point of view is not bad on this turn card. i didn't mean to say that Villain is going to raise these but rather fold these hands against a 2nd barrel on the turn a good amount of the time.

ah, ok

as far as turn, i agree that, of course, a 3bet shove from our opp is bad. but i don't worry that he will bluff jam the turn. i don't think anyone who isn't insane or a 10/20 reg is going to have that move in his arsenal here

This deep I don't hate the 3b preflop but I'm far from in love with it.

The turn play is obv lolbad and I can only assume that this is either a hand reversal or you folded to the raise.

This is what's known as a 'suicide bluff'; a spot where you have absolutely no idea what he has (he could have K5, K6, 66, 55, KK) and are just praying that he is somehow airballing.