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Prima Network $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1731658
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MP: $98.33
CO: $45.24
Hero (BTN): $100.00
SB: $100.00
BB: $107.58
UTG: $97.79

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with K K
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 3 folds, MP calls $5

Flop: ($14.50) J 6 8 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $9.00, MP raises to $18, Hero raises to $43

Final Pot: $50.50






I was pretty new at the table wich is a anonymous table, mp was playing rather weak but pretty tight for a fish, his hud stats so far was 26/11.

Utg and mp limps, I raise to 6x w KK on the btn for value and to collect the dead money.

with his stats I would put his limp range to 22-88 and 76s-QJs 97s-Q10s J8s-K10s Q9s-K9s Q8s-K9s K8s A8s-9s 98o-QJo Q10o-K10o which is 14 % of hands.

I cbet 9-14.5 for value on the flopp and get c/minraised on the flopp, since I had no specific reads on what hands he would do this with I wasn't prepared to fold my hand yet since I thought it could still be the best hand a lot, (what would you do here?)
and usually I think a c/minraise means either a strong hand like a set or a draw or a one pair type of hand and sometimes from some players it is a very weak draw like a gutshot, so I now think his range looked something like around the 10% of hands that connected the most with the board ( maybe I am way off here since I have no history from reads, maybe it is only 2% that has me beat but since I don't know I consider what I have seen various players usualy do this play with and then change my asumption if It show that I am wrong, what do you think about that? Since it is an anonymous table I don't gain that mutch from a read but am I really gonna just asume to be beat first time I get checkminraised from a new player and I have a overpair on a board like this?) and when anything from 5-Q on the turn was likely to help his one pair hands and draws to improve and it would be hard to know if I was still ahead I thought it would be better to raise than to call, what do you think about that and what do you think about my raise size here?

What was your plan if he shoved?

If you just call you risk being outdrawn but you have a chance for at least one street of value from his weak hands. Raising isolates you vs. nuts. And you have position. You do the math.

What was your plan if he shoved?

If you just call you risk being outdrawn but you have a chance for at least one street of value from his weak hands. Raising isolates you vs. nuts. And you have position. You do the math.

Plan was to call shove.
I see what you are saying but it's not as easy as you say, you don't know what kind of player he is, maybe he goes all in w a draw or w top pair. I would like to know better how you come to the conclusion that that is the most profitable to just call. And what do you then do on the turn if he bets again?

Plan was to call shove.
I see what you are saying but it's not as easy as you say, you don't know what kind of player he is, maybe he goes all in w a draw or w top pair. I would like to know better how you come to the conclusion that that is the most profitable to just call. And what do you then do on the turn if he bets again?

Not knowing what kind of player he is just makes it more of a reason to get some information with a hand you can probably call down to the river unless board runs awful or he goes nuts. If you get to the river you will see if he limp/called poker pair and min-c/r (with or without set), raised OESD or a jack. You will also get some good information on his sizing on every street (including min-c/r).
On the other hand getting it in will tell you one of three things: 1) oops he had a set. He played it poorly, but I payed him off. 2) wow, he staked of w QJ. What a fish. I'm glad I got his money before anybody else. 3) he folded. I wonder what he played this way??

I think your hand is equal to AJ in this spot. You are crushed by the top of his range and you beat al his bluffs and weird played top pairs. I think calling flop is better since there are no FD's out.

this is definitely a call after the c/r on the flop. given the dynamics being described and board texture, his range is definitely a mixture of some semi-bluffs, some sets and some other value hands. if you 3bet this sort of flop you define your hand to a stupid degree as being QQ+ and some sets. This will fold out his hands with showdown your beating and might made getting his semi-bluff equity (T9s, Q9s, 79s) hard to get in. in essence it is a call, followed by more call downs, depending on how the board texture develops. i mean, if it came 2x turn and 2x river, id probably shove river, or if you bink a set obv, but aside from that you just call down

I agree on just calling here. not a lot you have to protect against and he can fold too many hands. Id assume his range to be rather weak, as you see most players slowplay at least till the turn.

When an average fish x/mr on the flop, I would say the distrubution of his range looks like this:
- 50% = air
- 40% = monster (two pair+)
- 10% = thin value (2nd pair and worse, sometimes bare TPNK)

Percentages might not be accurate, but we can say for sure that 80-90% of his x/mr range is consisted of either air or monsters. That means his range is polarized.
Vs polarized ranges you should be more inclined to call and get to the showdown (you lose as small as possible against better hands + you keep worse hands, so you can get more value from them).
Don't be afraid of getting outdrawn, he has 4 outs at best (or 8 if he x/r with OESD, but usually that's not the case in fish's strategy).

On the turn just watch his bet sizing and timing. If he quickly bombs 3/4+, that means he has a strong hand. But if he thinks for a while and bets like 1/2, then he is prob not that strong and you should call.

Thanks for the replys.
I can see how most players won't call with worse if I 4b this flopp so I agree calling is better with no good reads.
What would you do if there was a flush draw on this flopp and everything else is the same way?

When an average fish x/mr on the flop, I would say the distrubution of his range looks like this:
- 50% = air
- 40% = monster (two pair+)
- 10% = thin value (2nd pair and worse, sometimes bare TPNK)

Percentages might not be accurate, but we can say for sure that 80-90% of his x/mr range is consisted of either air or monsters. That means his range is polarized.
Vs polarized ranges you should be more inclined to call and get to the showdown (you lose as small as possible against better hands + you keep worse hands, so you can get more value from them).
Don't be afraid of getting outdrawn, he has 4 outs at best (or 8 if he x/r with OESD, but usually that's not the case in fish's strategy).

On the turn just watch his bet sizing and timing. If he quickly bombs 3/4+, that means he has a strong hand. But if he thinks for a while and bets like 1/2, then he is prob not that strong and you should call.

Just curious how you came to this conclussion about his range?
To me the range you give isn't the most common way fish plays though I see it also.
I think it usually is more tpmk-tptk and two pair and some thin value like 2nd pair or a low pp, sets, not so mutch air when he limpcalls on a board like this, and some fish would raise str8draws, but majority would just call. So I still agree that calling would likely be better, I just don't se why you think the average fish has about 50% air and no tpmk-tpgk?

and also if he has any onepair type hand he has 5 outs not 4, not that it makes a lot of difference here.

Fish's range contains so much air usually on paired boards, here it is probably weighed more towards value - my bad. Still I think that fish x/mr more often with air, than with thin value like 2nd pairs - it just doesn't make sense. Also keep in mind that I'm talking about my experience

Accurate values are not important. What is important is the fact, that we are dealing with a polarized range, so we should bluff catch instead of trying to rebluff the fish.