Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

Hey guys, I thought this hand was pretty interesting and just wanted to see what everyone thinks. I'm not going to give much of my postflop thought process because I want to get as much unbiased opinions as possible.

Villain who opens is a weaker player, playing 43/16. I decided to just flat here because I have good postflop reads and have seen him do some spewy stuff with the initative, and I also don't love getting 4bet. That said, 3betting could certainly be a better option. BB is a good reg playing 24/16, who I have played with a lot. His calling range here is probably something like 22+, AJ, KQ, suited broadways and some SC's. He is solid, doesn't really call down lightly, and also capable of making big folds imo. With this info, what do you guys think about his range for getting to the river and what is the best play? Thanks.

Merge Network $1.00/$2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1677697
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $85.00
BB: $200.00
UTG: $166.25
CO: $114.12
Hero (BTN): $200.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN with A Q
1 fold, CO raises to $7.00, Hero calls $7, 1 fold, BB calls $5

Flop: ($22.00) 6 Q 3 (3 players)
BB bets $14.66, CO calls $14.66, Hero calls $14.66

Turn: ($65.98) Q (3 players)
BB checks, CO bets $2.00, Hero raises to $36.99, BB calls $36.99, CO folds

River: ($141.96) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, [color=red]Hero?

Looking back over this I should have definitely 3bet here. For some reason I thought he opened from MP but just realized the PFR was in the CO.

ya 3b to get hu vs the fish as played i dont think you can get any value vs his calling range working with Board: Qh 6c 3s Qc 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 59.091% 54.55% 04.55% 6 0.50 { 66, 33, KQs, QTs+, AcQs, AsQc, KcQs, KsQc }
Hand 1: 40.909% 36.36% 04.55% 4 0.50 { AhQd }

If you think he calls pre here with QJo then you can
Board: Qh 6c 3s Qc 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.429% 42.86% 03.57% 6 0.50 { 66, 33, KQs, QTs+, AcQs, AsQc, KcQs, KsQc, QJo }
Hand 1: 53.571% 50.00% 03.57% 7 0.50 { AhQd }

I discounted combos of QQ+ and some AQs thinking he would 3b pre or c/r flop

i'm not familiar with donking ranges on boards like this since i rarely see it. but once we overcall, it looks very much like we have Qx+ or 45s. once villain checks turn, i think his range is weighted towards weak trips, QJ most likely, and maybe quads. i can't see him c/c'ing with a draw himself as we could slowplay a lot of sets IP on this flop.

i think river is a mandatory vb, so i'd size it to get called by weak trips. but since our range is trips or boat (would we bet a draw on the turn?), calling down with QJ can't be good for villain. i'm super conflicted here as it feels like i shouldn't be able to get value from a competent villain with enough worse hands. but i'm gonna hope he also has KQ as well as QJ and put in a 1/2p bet. if i checkback top trips here, i feel super dirty.

but it does feel like a bad bet. like we should only get 2 bets out of this villain unless we have some crazy image IP. interesting hand for sure.

I think it's a check. BB is significantly more likely to lead sets than Qx (a lot of combos 3 bet pre most likely) and for some reason regs like to check when they hit a boat and even if he does have Qx he might find a fold (although it's unlikely since his perceived range is strong).

Yeah I've been thinking about this hand a decent amount and I've come to the conclusion that it's most likely a check OTR. It definitely feels gross, but I think it's going to be hard to get a ton of value. Like Snarble said, he's more likely to donk sets than Qx OTF and also since my perceived range is pretty much trips or better, I think he will often find a fold with QJ or QT (only 2 combos anyways). So basically hands that call are KQ, AQ, and sets. We beat 4 combos and lose to 6, so yeah I think check is best. But I thought it was an interesting spot just because it's pretty obvious both players' ranges are really strong and we both know that. These spots don't seem to come up all that often.

What about underbet($48-$58)/fold OTR? You keep his calling range OTR somewhat wider and I think you have a fairly easy fold if he x/shoves the river.

Yeah I've been thinking about this hand a decent amount and I've come to the conclusion that it's most likely a check OTR. It definitely feels gross, but I think it's going to be hard to get a ton of value. Like Snarble said, he's more likely to donk sets than Qx OTF and also since my perceived range is pretty much trips or better, I think he will often find a fold with QJ or QT (only 2 combos anyways). So basically hands that call are KQ, AQ, and sets. We beat 4 combos and lose to 6, so yeah I think check is best. But I thought it was an interesting spot just because it's pretty obvious both players' ranges are really strong and we both know that. These spots don't seem to come up all that often.

It's tricky because of the way that the fish influences the hand. You described fish as one who might get too spewy postflop. If he an aggro betting monkey I guess villains line makes sense with a set. Because he is kind of reversing the positions getting to act last if fish bets out. If fish is calling too much it doesn't make sense though. Why would Villain slow down giving free cards and maybe miss the chance to get more money in with the best hand?

Also the fish presence could make him call lighter preflop which enhances chance that he does hold a weaker queen. Maybe he even calls pre with 45s? I know I would

QJ and QT are 8 combos by the way - not 2.

QJ and QT are 8 combos - not 2.

I think he was just counting the suited ones, but i agree with the points you are making and I might be leaning to a underbet/fold now.

Also the fish presence could make him call lighter preflop which enhances chance that he does hold a weaker queen. QJ and QT are 8 combos - not 2.

Well I assumed he would only be calling with QJs and QTs. He certainly could be calling pre with QJo and QTo with the presence of the fish. That said, I don't think we are getting paid off by those hands OTR unless we make some kind of under bet.

Well I assumed he would only be calling with QJs and QTs. He certainly could be calling pre with QJo and QTo with the presence of the fish. That said, I don't think we are getting paid off by those hands OTR unless we make some kind of under bet.

As for Qx (fwiw), I think his preflop calling range is somewhat like Q8s+, Q9o+ because of the weak player

is there such a thing as a hero check?

bf

the only thing of any use in spots like this is a poker stove. we can check or we can valuebet. if we are >50% v his calling range, we bet; if not, we check.

3b preflop shouldn't come down to the fish's position. he's not going to be positionally aware. if he is, it's going to be so small relative to the overall question of whether call or 3b is more profitable that we should pretty much ignore it.

3b preflop shouldn't come down to the fish's position. he's not going to be positionally aware. if he is, it's going to be so small relative to the overall question of whether call or 3b is more profitable that we should pretty much ignore it.

Yeah good point. I definitely think not 3betting was a mistake.