Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

I never know exactly what the best line is in this spot, vs a relative unknown as it was near the start of a session (turned out to b an aggresive reg, but didnt kno that att) villain raises in position and we have top pair, obviously villains range is very draw heavy from gutshots like 89 to FDs and a decent amount of air, never has two pair and v few combos of sets and may be raising for thin value with qj, kj or a few slow played overpairs, so i never know whether to call and check jam on a safe turn, wud prefer this with A of clubs, it also risks him taking a free one ott, or just jamming to collect the dead money altho we're not doing all that well against his calling range is obv still +EV, i decided to click it back (or meant to, think it was a few bb's more) but this still prices in his draws that dont decide to jam and allows him to play perfectly against us, what is the most plus EV here with little reads, thanks

Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1672852
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG)
MP: $105.39 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 19, 3B: 8, AF: 2.8, Hands: 973
CO: $120.54 - VPIP: 39, PFR: 31, 3B: 18, AF: 1.0, Hands: 51
BTN: $97.00 - VPIP: 40, PFR: 2, 3B: 0, AF: 3.3, Hands: 50
SB: $188.53 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 26
BB: $100.00 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 20, 3B: 14, AF: 4.0, Hands: 35

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with A J
Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, CO calls $3, 3 folds

Flop: ($7.50) J 2 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $5.50, CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $27, CO calls $13

Turn: ($61.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $38.00, CO folds

[b]Final Pot: $61.50
Hero wins $58.73
(Rake: $2.77)

The way you played it you should probably consider betting smaller ott.
25 is plenty

The way you played it you should probably consider betting smaller ott.
25 is plenty

I don't like reraising flop because I think we would mostly be called/4bet by better and the worse hands (FD's) have great equity against us.

I would call the flop (pot control and allow his bluffing range to continue on turn)

The way you played it you should probably consider betting smaller ott.
25 is plenty

i completely agree, was just didn't want to price in hands with decent equity, but 25 wud have been enough for that especially since the board pairing likely hurt his equity alot, was terrible sizing, was more concerned about the flop play tho

I don't like reraising flop because I think we would mostly be called/4bet by better and the worse hands (FD's) have great equity against us.

I would call the flop (pot control and allow his bluffing range to continue on turn)

Just wanted to say if he decided to bet/3bet he should probably bet smaller OTT.

About bet/3betting:
Don't really hate it on this specific flop (would prefer to have some history/dynamics with this villain though). I might prefer just calling OTF if we had position (or at least A:club), because we give a villain change to XB OTT and play pretty much perfectly. Plus he will rep a flush ott (or str8) and we might end up doing a big mistake of either calling off too lightly (if he hits str8) or folding to 3f turn (when he actually has GS or something similair)

Just wanted to say if he decided to bet/3bet he should probably bet smaller OTT.

I quoted you by accident so my comment wasn't meant to be about your comment... it was ment to be a separate comment on the play altogether. :\

If I had Ac, or AcJc I would typically 3b... I agree OOP it is tough playing it by flatting because it allows him to play perfectly on turn but I'm just more comfortable pot controlling and getting to showdown without an established dynamic. I don't think either play is -EV though.

btw... I think you are correct on your assessment of betting smaller ott if 3betting flop..

yo why did you 4bet

yo why did you 4bet

tryin 2 git dat chedda yo

yo why did you 4bet

u mean y did i 3 bet the flop? was planning on clicking it back, because when he raised he repped few value hands, so if i had air here i would click it back sometimes aswell, and was hoping he might shove with a weak range over my click back

The problem with CIB in this spot is you still give him pretty good odds to call with FDs (although his hand is a bit more transparent after calling). So he either folds air (unless he CIB again for bluff ), calls FD for very good price, or might have you beat (not so probable).

If villain saw you CIB very often (for bluffing also) than CIB with TPTK is also good. But maybe not on this particulair board.. (BDs and GS are folding, FDs have good price)

Edit: This may sound a bit messed, it's a bit late

The problem with CIB in this spot is you still give him pretty good odds to call with FDs (although his hand is a bit more transparent after calling). So he either folds air (unless he CIB again for bluff ), calls FD for very good price, or might have you beat (not so probable).

If villain saw you CIB very often (for bluffing also) than CIB with TPTK is also good. But maybe not on this particulair board.. (BDs and GS are folding, FDs have good price)

Edit: This may sound a bit messed, it's a bit late

it may giv him a gud price with a FD, but just calling doesn't charge his FD at all and unless we're donking the turn it allows him to take a free card to hit his draw

it may giv him a gud price with a FD, but just calling doesn't charge his FD at all and unless we're donking the turn it allows him to take a free card to hit his draw

I do agree with you, in my first post i also said i prefer 3betting (because of position and lack of ). What i'm saying is like a slightly bigger 3b size (not just CIB).

And your (our) line differs from others' (itsatrap, i3betu..) because they expect villain to continue bluffing OTT way more often than you do. You think villain will check FD OTT fairly often. The thing is he does not have only a FD here but also some or other BDs and if he keeps bluffing OTT (and also betting with FD) that is way better for us if we let him (he is putting money in OTT at best with 18% EQ thus making a bigger mistake).

So not to think of it: if he is raising flops faily often (like 20%) he can't have only FDs and strong hands but also a lot of weak hands and our hand is not really vulnerable so it's probably way better to call and give him rope.

I'd 3 bet flop vs someone this crazy looking (yes I know preflop aggression != to postflop aggression) but someone this aggro is prob bluffraising the flop/gonna spew a decent amount. I'd call the raise if we have the Ac. I'm checking or betting smaller on the turn though.