blah234
2462 posts
Joined 12/2009
Right thats why valuebetting the river makes sense, but you said if he calls here we will prolly turn our hand into bluff later, when its pretty clear value bet later. I also said Id c/c the river if some draws got there because hes not repping much at all he was the PFR and chkd back the flop so I was not putting him on a draw... unless you had a read that he does not bet draws.
We have no idea if villain can check a draw also what his c/c range looks like other than it's weak. He can easily hit an overcard or have a draw. Assuming people always always cbet a FD on the flop especially mutiway is a mistake.
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runners23
129 posts
Joined 01/2011
playing vs fish or anyone who doesn't use position well OOP or IP has very little difference. My default assumption is that the times villain folds pre + times they c/f flop to small cbet + the times I hit a pair will make raising most hands profitable.
These guys very rarely limp fold at least the ones I come across, I do agree fish do c/f a decent bit but we are oop vs villian he cannot c/f here. Fish are usally pretty floaty IP esp when bets are small. However I do agree when we make a pair we will value town him forsure. I just think its pretty thin since we rarely flop TP and with no reads how he plays post I cant see it being that profitable or even profitable at all.... I may be wrong though, it wouldnt be the first time lol.
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blah234
2462 posts
Joined 12/2009
Hi, I'm a micro fish, but have some questions about the 33 hand where the shortstack push in a multiwaypot preflop. He push almost 29bb, and hero push with 2 people behind. When we push, we do it to win 41bb in the pot, but we are always flipping or hugh dogs against the shortstacks range. If we say that we got around 30% eq vs the shortstack in BB, wich I think is pretty generous? Then this is a -EV push anyway? Am I thinking wrong in any spot? Sry if its like that 
we have more than 30% equity. For every 6 combos of a pair there are 20 combos of uppaired hands. Vs any unpaired hand even AKs we have over 50% equity. Even vs a range like AK+ and QQ+ we have around 35% equity which is why shoving small pp over 4 bets in spots where villain is likely to to bluffing isn't such a bad idea.
Posted over 1 year ago
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blah234
2462 posts
Joined 12/2009
These guys very rarely limp fold at least the ones I come across, I do agree fish do c/f a decent bit but we are oop vs villian he cannot c/f here. Fish are usally pretty floaty IP esp when bets are small. However I do agree when we make a pair we will value town him forsure. I just think its pretty thin since we rarely flop TP and with no reads how he plays post I cant see it being that profitable or even profitable at all.... I may be wrong though, it wouldnt be the first time lol.
Doesn't matter if villain is a fish or reg we adjust the same way. Fish who gets to the turn with a weak range we can 2 barrel as well. Just make sure the math is in your favour. I don't see the difference between c/f to cbet OOP or folding to a cbet IP. If you can bet half pot and someone will fold air you should auto profit by cbetting ATC. It's hard to connect with the flop more than 1/3 of the time with a wide range.
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runners23
129 posts
Joined 01/2011
How a fish plays has nothing to do with how big you should raise. The bigger you raise preflop the more often you have to win the pot postflop for the bigger raise to make sense generally. You should adjust your range for raising vs different fish. For example, I would not raise like 76s vs a stationy fish but raise that vs a fit or fold fish. How big you raise should depend on how other regs react at your table.
Im not sure how you can say how a fish plays has nothing to do with our PFR sizing. When I have a whale at my table Im not really worried about regs squeezing light because if we are talking about the big fish im talking about they woul dbe scared the fish would cc them. There so many diff types of fish in my game, obv vs fish that give us hard times post we dont wanna bloat the pot as much cause we dont win as much. Then the other type who players more str8 forward obv we want more money in pre since we win alot more post. So i really dont understand how u say it doesnt matter how the fish plays.
So i guess i should rephrase my? now, how big should we go vs a loose pass fish who calls every iso and who will play str8 forward post when regs are really not a issue? Thanks.
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blah234
2462 posts
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Im not sure how you can say how a fish plays has nothing to do with our PFR sizing. When I have a whale at my table Im not really worried about regs squeezing light because if we are talking about the big fish im talking about they woul dbe scared the fish would cc them. There so many diff types of fish in my game, obv vs fish that give us hard times post we dont wanna bloat the pot as much cause we dont win as much. Then the other type who players more str8 forward obv we want more money in pre since we win alot more post. So i really dont understand how u say it doesnt matter how the fish plays.
So i guess i should rephrase my? now, how big should we go vs a loose pass fish who calls every iso and who will play str8 forward post when regs are really not a issue? Thanks.
No if you got a huge whale the calls everything the regs should reraise with a depolarized range which includes any off suit broadways and that's a 15% range. The goal is to make you fold and play the fish HU with an equity advantage. I'm not saying they will do it at 100nl but that's the right adjustment. Do you want to raise huge with a wide range and get 3 bet 15% of the times by every single player behind you?
You can build a pot for the fish's whole stack even if you raise to 3x, just pot every street or slightly overbet somewhere. He's not folding a decent hand anyways.
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runners23
129 posts
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Doesn't matter if villain is a fish or reg we adjust the same way. Fish who gets to the turn with a weak range we can 2 barrel as well. Just make sure the math is in your favour. I don't see the difference between c/f to cbet OOP or folding to a cbet IP. If you can bet half pot and someone will fold air you should auto profit by cbetting ATC. It's hard to connect with the flop more than 1/3 of the time with a wide range.
Assuming he isnt floaty, most fish I come across will call 2overs alot , example flop is 1052 villian has JQ he calls. Ace high is pretty standard calls from fish, and BD FD hands i see fish float alot. So thats why i said without the read I thought it was a bit thin. Im not sure we can assume a 60/30 is gonna play fit or fold lol. Thank you for the quick reply sir!
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runners23
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blah234
2462 posts
Joined 12/2009
Assuming he isnt floaty, most fish I come across will call 2overs alot , example flop is 1052 villian has JQ he calls. Ace high is pretty standard calls from fish, and BD FD hands i see fish float alot. So thats why i said without the read I thought it was a bit thin. Im not sure we can assume a 60/30 is gonna play fit or fold lol. Thank you for the quick reply sir!
So you are saying we make loads of money when we hit a pair and have loads of equity vs his calling range even maybe a favourite when we don't. Seems pretty +EV to me.
Posted over 1 year ago
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runners23
129 posts
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No if you got a huge whale the calls everything the regs should reraise with a depolarized range which includes any off suit broadways and that's a 15% range. The goal is to make you fold and play the fish HU with an equity advantage. I'm not saying they will do it at 100nl but that's the right adjustment. Do you want to raise huge with a wide range and get 3 bet 15% of the times by every single player behind you?
You can build a pot for the fish's whole stack even if you raise to 3x, just pot every street or slightly overbet somewhere. He's not folding a decent hand anyways.
Yep thats when iso Axs and pairs then reshipping on those guys is pretty sexy... Since they prolly need AQ plus to call and we block a few combos huh?... maybe spewy but im sure it cant be that bad!
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blah234
2462 posts
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Yep thats when iso Axs and pairs then reshipping on those guys is pretty sexy... Since they prolly need AQ plus to call and we block a few combos huh?... maybe spewy but im sure it cant be that bad!
It's terrible, do the math.
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Buby2132
1456 posts
Joined 09/2010
It's terrible, do the math.
Please do this, it will help you hugely in your game. It clear you really dont understand many basic poker theories.
IMO, you dont have a solid foundation of basic poker. If you think making plays is 'pretty sexy' without any mathematical basis, then you really shouldnt watch complex series like this.
Im not trying to offend whatsoever, but give advice to help you. Nan said in his first ep that this series will hurt players games who dont have solid fundamentals.
Posted over 1 year ago
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runners23
129 posts
Joined 01/2011
runners23
129 posts
Joined 01/2011
Please do this, it will help you hugely in your game. It clear you really dont understand many basic poker theories.
IMO, you dont have a solid foundation of basic poker. If you think making plays is 'pretty sexy' without any mathematical basis, then you really shouldnt watch complex series like this.
Im not trying to offend whatsoever, but give advice to help you. Nan said in his first ep that this series will hurt players games who dont have solid fundamentals.
ya im on 24 hours no sleep right now in the middle of a schedule change, tired of waking up when its dark outside. So ya I prolly sound like a fool right now, AS i just said I rarely use it its a good move to have in your arsinal when you feel someone is light. Obv have a read first!
Posted over 1 year ago
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runners23
129 posts
Joined 01/2011
It's terrible, do the math.
But seriously its really bad if you are only doing it vs that 15 % range clearly that would be retarded to do I havent done the math yet but if you factor in bluffs and you have good timing you should be able to turn a profit as long as u dont do it that often,(soul reading helps too). Sorry for the miscomunication I believe i have trouble sometimes putting my thoughts into words correctly. Ill chill out cause I feel like im derailing what is OBV going to be one of the best series I personally ever viewed online. And trust me Ive seen a ton! So ima chill out cause this really isnt getting anywhere lol with my lack of putting thoughts into words 
Posted over 1 year ago
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