Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

Villain is 25/20/2.9
Played with him a lot and don't fear him. He is an OK but no great player.

Betfair $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 221494
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $31.65
BTN: $271.05
SB: $128.35
Hero (BB): $143.58
UTG: $97.46
MP: $17.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with J Q
3 folds, BTN raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9.50, BTN calls $6.50

Flop: ($19.50) T 6 A (2 players)
Hero bets $14.00, BTN calls $14

Turn: ($47.50) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $30.00, BTN calls $30

River: ($107.50) J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $217.55, Hero calls $90.08 all in

Preflop I decide to 3bet because my hand is to weak to call.
After he just calls I normally can remove QQ+, AK from his range.
An ace high flop is pretty good for me. There are a lot of hands that call once but not twice on that board. AJ-, JJ, 88, KF with no fd, 99 and some weaker flushdraws. I would expect him to reraise his stronger draws and his sets on the flop most of the time.

I think my 2 barrels are quite standart. But I am not sure about the river play. The problem is that I can't see a lot of hands valuebetting that river.

I don't see him valuebetting AQ here.
AK is normally not in his range.
He could have AJ, but he will sometimes fold it on the turn.
JJ he would have folded on the flop/turn.
TT/AT would have raised flop/turn.
KQ/KJ/KT/TQ/JT of heart I expect him to raise on the flop.
Because my turnbet is quite small I think he has a weak fd quite often. But I think onepair hands with a T or J would check behind. And like I said I would expect that his stronger fd range like JT, KQ raising the flop/turn.
So on the river he has a lot of missed fd in his range.

Can I call this?

Isn't giving up on the turn good enough? I think this is heading for disaster.

I think if I decide to cbet that flop I have to cbet that turn.
Because a lot of his range KK;QQ;JJ KQ; KJ;QJ, some weaker flushdraws will call once but not twice.
Even some smaller aces can fold on the turn because they will be committed when they call
And I still have 8 outs to improve

Right, I didn't notice you gained outs on the turn. The turn is fine I guess.

But if you stick to your reasons for betting the turn, you can't possibly call the river, as the weaker FD's folded, the weaker aces as well, KQ,AJ pretty much got there. And he must expect that you bluffcatch some portion of the time with AK/AQ, so I think it's a fold.

River is a definite fold given the range you gave him on the turn.

A vast amount of the time I'm behind here I'd expect it to go check, check. So when he suddenly has hand enough to jam on the river he's repping only AJ to me (I'm a simple being); that against all of his random fds, maybe even slim draws or floats from the flop that turned a pair or draw respectively, anything that picked up enough outs to keep him in (it's a very wide range he could get here with).

'Cause of that I just don't like folding, plus, if you hadn't rivered that Jack you'd have probably had a profitable bluff yourself, and given that he's probably more likely to make a light calldown with AQ as opposed to value bet it, that just makes me hate c/folding even more.

That said it'd be a fair bit better if you were doing this on a river 2clubs, and I think you'd get more advocates for a call there too.

Pretty sick call if you put it together and were right.

maybe u make a sick hero callevery now and then but if you 3 bet a wide range u have to give up. Like u barrell here and i dont hate it given u have a double gutshot but i think i check back turn for pot control bc i dont really wanna b/c turn but betting is fine given our equity. When he shoves just fold i mean u beat 99 and some rando T and Kxhearts but u just beat nothing seams like a hugeeeeeeeeee leak to call this river w/o exact reads. River is terrible.

I dislike preflop. You say you dont fear this guy but truth is you dont need to tangle with him here. Our hand is trash, stacks are semi deep and we are OOP why get involved?

I dislike preflop. You say you dont fear this guy but truth is you dont need to tangle with him here. Our hand is trash, stacks are semi deep and we are OOP why get involved?

How is our hand trash?

We can flop good strong pairs which have good showdown value and semi decent draws.

He's not floating two streets. In order for you to be ahead, he has to have something he thinks is worth calling two streets and turning into a bluff on the river. That's happening significantly less often than you think. This specific board texture makes it even more unlikely

How is our hand trash?

We can flop good strong pairs which have good showdown value and semi decent draws.

great, then why are you turning this into a bluff with a 3bet and bloating the pot with deep stacks?

it's good enough to call if he isn't that good

great, then why are you turning this into a bluff with a 3bet and bloating the pot with deep stacks?

it's good enough to call if he isn't that good

Calling, folding or 3 betting are all fine. A lot of the 3 bets we make are not just for value or as a bluff, but to retake the initiative preflop, widen range pre, widen value/top pair range postflop so you can bluff more and more successfully etc.

Calling, folding or 3 betting are all fine. A lot of the 3 bets we make are not just for value or as a bluff, but to retake the initiative preflop, widen range pre, widen value/top pair range postflop so you can bluff more and more successfully etc.

thanks for the lesson, coach, but you're wrong.

this isn't the worst play in the world but as far as hands we want to 3bet to widen our range, it's just not the best hand to be doing this with. so i'd argue that 3-betting isn't "fine" i'd say it's kinda meh in a vacuum but not atrocious as long as its not standard, calling is pretty good and folding is not good.

i love those angry, sarcastic advice giving people :-)

I think Msthngs is right when he says that a reason to 3bet is to take over initiative (among with other reasons)

I also believe there is nothing wrong by 3 betting this but the river call is just bad I think.
I think you don't beat enough on the river to make this profitable.