Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by terp (Micro/Small Stakes)

Hand Readers: Episode Two

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Hand Readers: Episode Two by terp, orange

Hand Readers, are they really soul reading, or just really good at situational cognitive thought? Come find out as Terp and Orange expand on last episodes topics and include some example hands.

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Ask any great No Limit player what his biggest strength is, and he’ll tell you it’s his ability to read hands. We hear the term “hand ranges” thrown around left, right and center. Why? Orange and terp explore the answer in this series, primarily focused on hand reading, equity distribution and balancing. A must watch for any micro or small stakes player.

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orange terp hand readers powerpoint ipod friendly hand history review

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: Micro/Small Stakes
  • 54 minutes long
  • Posted over 4 years ago

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Comments for Hand Readers: Episode Two

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pkrlvr

Avatar for pkrlvr

Ship it imo
341 posts
Joined 09/2008

Love the content of the series so far. The sound issues are a bit tilting but not horrible. Are there any plans for a live play video?

One minor complaint I have is the white backgrounds used for the slides, maybe my eyes are a little more sensitive than others(old age perhaps) but I'd prefer a darker background. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

Posted over 4 years ago

terp

Avatar for terp

1996 posts
Joined 01/2008

Obviously it's standard not to include results in normal hand-analysis, but I think in the context of this series including the villains' hand at the end actually is important. This is because the point of the series is how well we assign hand ranges, so the "result" of the hand is not who won or lost - rather, the "result" of the hand is whether the hand he actually had was indeed in the range we assigned to him. We need to see his cards to know whether we got this right.

So, in the AJ hand v. the fish, you should show the result so you can say "Look, our range-assignment was correct, he did indeed have TJ". Or, against the TAG, "Look, he had 88 - that makes sense in terms of his preflop range from MP".

Hope that makes sense.



chomp, great point. i struggled at one pt to explain why certain discussion would not constitute results-oriented thinking despite being a discussion of results. the reason, simply put, is that result-oriented thinking is a bit of a misnomer. the term usually appears in criticism of pessimism concerning a call once the caller is shown a better hand. the results don't really inform our thinking since one hand won't demonstrate what someone's entire range is. BUT, as you noted, if we failed to credit that player with ever arriving at that spot with that hand, we have erred.

the reason we chose to leave out the results throughout is because we want you all to start anew with hand reading and focus on the thought process during the hand.

i will share that the hand that the player in question had did not fall outside the range i assigned Smile

Posted over 4 years ago

Troem

Avatar for Troem

159 posts
Joined 07/2008

i think the slides and the way you skip through them is totaly confusing.

to much text appearing at the same time and everything looks the same.

Posted over 4 years ago

uprightjazz

Avatar for uprightjazz

49 posts
Joined 08/2008

Absolute great video !!!!!!!!!!!!

I really need to practice handreading and this was exactly what i needed, thank you guys !!

Posted over 4 years ago

Parvex

Avatar for Parvex

66 posts
Joined 07/2008

i think the slides and the way you skip through them is totaly confusing.

to much text appearing at the same time and everything looks the same.



Concerning this I'd prolly just copy the slides you want to refer later on, to the point where this actually shall happen. It's much more fluent than if you go back 3 slides to show the hand once again. This ain't much work to do and makes the presentation more viewable (also I did not have any problems with they way you presented it, just one step closer to perfection).

Posted over 4 years ago

terp

Avatar for terp

1996 posts
Joined 01/2008

would people be interested in having the powerpoint file to accompany the video?

Posted over 4 years ago

kipper01

Avatar for kipper01

2 posts
Joined 10/2008

sorry you feel this way - what might we do better?

i apologize for the sound issues. my old computer really struggled to run everything and i'll look into defragging and all other options.



take a few dollars from your bankroll and purchase a new PC.

Posted over 4 years ago

Twogianteggs

Avatar for Twogianteggs

90 posts
Joined 08/2008

would people be interested in having the powerpoint file to accompany the video?


Terp; I wouldn't mind the file if you have it available. Thanks

Posted over 4 years ago

amarillotg

Avatar for amarillotg

328 posts
Joined 02/2008

i think this might be the best series on dc yet.

Posted over 4 years ago

Parvex

Avatar for Parvex

66 posts
Joined 07/2008

I'd really like to have the PowerPoint avaiable.

Posted over 4 years ago

negtv capability

Avatar for negtv capability

9 posts
Joined 04/2008

I'd like to see the exact range assigned to a villain considering preflop action. Then, I'd like to see which hands you eliminate with each action on each street. I think including stats like vpip/ pfr/ AF would be helpful. These things would make your thought process, which came across as a bit random at times, more concrete for me.
Maybe you think listing all of the possible hands in a villain's range is not very realistic in terms how hand reading is done in practice at the table(s). I guess I'd like my own hand reading to be more methodical, instead of just based on whatever pops into my head at the time about my opponent, so I'm looking for some method that's simple and can be easily made routine.

Posted over 4 years ago

SlimboKarvell

Avatar for SlimboKarvell

213 posts
Joined 01/2008

I didn't really liked the first 2 episodes. There are several reasons:

- Why have 2 people talk when the one person repeats what the other says, just in other words, making it even more complicated to understand? Try to stop the video after every slide and take 5 minutes to discuss what every one is trying to say. I cannot guess how difficult it is to talk of such a big topic, and I appreciate you guys trying to do it. Perhaps try to say less but in a more clear way?
- Why point out the "way" you think about hand ranges and not follow them in you analysis? You seem to jump from flop to turn to river and back and forth too much. Try to follow your own rules, say everything you want on the flop and continue till the river. For example say that you first analyse the villain, than look at flop texture etc. One option to illustrate the process would be to open Poker Stove, type in the range and narrowing it down till the river where you compare it to your range. That way everything is more "visualized" and your comments might be a bit easier to follow.
- Your examples seem a bit... weird. To me they don't really underline what you were talking about in the slide. But that perhaps just me... Another thing that you could change is that you only display the flop and show the turn only after you analysed the flop so the viewer is not aware of future actions. It makes slides better to read and easier to concentrate on your comments. Use PowerPoint to your advantage e.g. by displaying different turn actions and analyse how they change the ranges.
- Far too much text in one slide. This is the same problem with the comments, try to be more precise!
- Chose a better layout for your slides. Numerate them, make headings. That way when you chose to go back the viewer will not get lost.

As I said I think you picked a very difficult topic for your series and PowerPoint Videos are always difficult to make interesting. Despite my criticism I think you have a lot to teach us and I hop you understand my constructive criticism (excuse my English btw Wink ).

Posted over 4 years ago

themightyjim2k

Avatar for themightyjim2k

415 posts
Joined 04/2007

did the sound issues get fixed? I thought vid 1 was decent and I was interested in the 2nd but the sound issues were pretty bad earlier.

fwiw I think the videos are pretty good, but from reading the comments I think some of the problems people are having is that some of the things that seem self evident to players that understand hand reading and ranges are very foreign to those that are trying to learn from this series. So there are times when you guys are explaining things and I'm not sure you're explaining them from the perspective of your most important audience. TBH if you did that I'm not sure I would get as much out of the series (or most winning MSNL+ regs) but I'm not really sure that this series is really for me anyway.

I can definitely appreciate the effort though, and I applaud the authors for coming on here and working with the members to try and fix any problems and provide an A+ product. I know these guys can play, so if all the format stuff gets worked out I have a feeling these are going to be solid vids.

Posted over 4 years ago

marcopolio

Avatar for marcopolio

143 posts
Joined 08/2008

I like the videos and enjoy the discussion - I always like to have two coachs but would prefer that the coachs discussed concepts and differing opinion, rather than carving up points and talking seperately. This does seem that, at times, you are shoehorning in comments from Terp or Orange for the sake of talking.

I would like to see the powerpoint available - making notes on the powerpoint while watching would be beneficial.

Currently, the series looks like a large block of text for ~1 hr; this can be difficult to watch and certainly difficult to concentrate and absorb for an hour. Ideally, I would like to see a replayer used to discuss the hands and perhaps use 2/3 examples for each concept that you discuss. For instance, concept of Construct a Pre-Flop Hand Range and use an example where you open in the CO and get flatted by the button, a hand where you raise IP and get called by a blind and then a 3 way pot or similar. I think the examples need to be used, via a replayer (and using Pokerstove like Slimbo suggested) to really illustrate the concepts and produce visual aid for the concepts that are used.

I appreciate that these videos must be difficult to produce, especially as a lot of what you guys do post flop must be solidly ingrained and a certain amount automated but by visualising the concepts, I think you would help people to understand the process of reading a hand.

In my ideal vid, you would be replaying a hand to illustrate a previous slide and as you discussed the action and the decision you were going to make, the concepts would be fading in, overlaying the replay as you discussed each one - does that make sense? So, you would have used a slide with a concept like 'Given Our Holding What Action Do We Desire?' and you have a hand being replayed and as you say something like 'Villain here has a likely range xxxx and we are looking to value bet, in order for the villain to call' - as you discuss this, the concept words overlay the screen. This would give a further visual display and prompt for people to develop the hand reading methodology and the correct mindset to make a decision.

Hope this isn't too long and overblown; I am enjoying the series and feel like it could be even better!

Posted over 4 years ago

LoveisHell

Avatar for LoveisHell

17 posts
Joined 11/2008

1. Please fix the sound problems. Very unprofessional IMO, but the content is fairly good.

2. Also please write the ranges PF, flop, turn , river, so we can easily follow the thought process.
Example:
PF: TT+, AQ+
Flop: TT+, AK
Turn: xx, xx
River: xx, xx

3. I would also like to see more powerpoint screens, because it's really hard to concentrate if the same slide is on for 7 min and you're talking about the same subject.

4. Higlight or bold the important stuff when using powerpoint.

5. I don't like it when you drift aways from the topic, because I also seem to lose focus.
Thanks for the videos and I hope you take these notes into consideration.

Posted over 4 years ago




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