---

Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (Micro/Small Stakes)

11 years for a Bachelor's degree? Now I don't feel so bad.

11 years for a Bachelor's degree? Now I don't feel so bad.

Sorta, I had time off as I had major knee surgeries (I nearly played Div 1 hoop) and then should have graduated 6 years after high school but left my senior year to take a job. Then I took intermittently night classes over the next 5 years to finish up.

MrWookie: On Downswings

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3369361

Henry the vacuum.

Inavacuum, regarding the 2nd hand in with the KQs, do you not feel he could have a hand like 67 or 56 a lot or any flush draw with a 7 in it?
I think that he would just bet,bet,bet with a set on this board for fear we check back the turn so I would feel like he can only have the straight or a semibluff. I also feel like he could do this with a bare flush draw if he is an aggressive player since it's a really crap spot if he bets and we raise and otherwise he needs to check/fold, and by c/ring he can represent the straight.

Maybe im just too suspicious.

Inavacuum, regarding the 2nd hand in with the KQs, do you not feel he could have a hand like 67 or 56 a lot or any flush draw with a 7 in it?
I think that he would just bet,bet,bet with a set on this board for fear we check back the turn so I would feel like he can only have the straight or a semibluff. I also feel like he could do this with a bare flush draw if he is an aggressive player since it's a really crap spot if he bets and we raise and otherwise he needs to check/fold, and by c/ring he can represent the straight.

Maybe im just too suspicious.

He certainly could do this with a FD, it's not at all outside the realms of possibility, but unless I'm playing HU I'm not treating TP as the nuts vs a relative unknown, if we start doing that we're entering spew territory pretty fast. Even if (or especially as) we have flagged villian up us a fish/maniac/whatever I think it's entirely possible he shows up here with a hand he shouldn't really have like, Qc7c, just as often as a FD.

Thanks for the reply

I think I would have ended up calling in this spot getting ~2.3-1 because I would feel his range of made hands is narrow and there are a lot of combo draws in his range. I guess this is a leak for me.

Also in the QQ hand, I totally agree with your opinion of getting it in vs a donkish player in that spot. But I am interested to know what you would do if we had raised to around $24 rather than full pot and he then made it 50ish.

Thanks for the reply

I think I would have ended up calling in this spot getting ~2.3-1 because I would feel his range of made hands is narrow and there are a lot of combo draws in his range. I guess this is a leak for me.

Also in the QQ hand, I totally agree with your opinion of getting it in vs a donkish player in that spot. But I am interested to know what you would do if we had raised to around $24 rather than full pot and he then made it 50ish.

Re the 1st KQ hand, I think it's a pretty bad spot for the villian to bluff as he shouldn't expect us to fold a decent Q. Asking ourselves if the villian expects us to fold is never a bad idea when we're trying to put them on a bluff line. If he had air and the FD got there on either the turn or the river, I much prefer his line in this particular instance given history and game flow up to that point. As it stands I'd want to know what this behaviour means from this player before I stack off with TP2ndK at 6max. If he's that bad we are going to get his stack sooner rather than later.

Re the QQ hand, I probably call here quite often rather than raise simply because we should be acutely aware of the fish being able to pull a goofy move like this (I had no prior knowledge of the hands but I almost expected him to do something like this, I think I said something along those lines at the time), or just flat out shoving if he doesn't take the goofy route (calling is also not a line many people expect us to take). If we had raised to a different size for some reason (though if we are raising there it shouldn't really be with the intention of folding on the flop, so I don't know why we would raiser smaller if we do decide to raise) I don't know if I react any differently simply because villian should never ever be minraising that flop in that spot with a hand that beats ours at that time (or one that doesn't).

Quick general note on the last hand of the session. Given the history that Tarek provided my read was that he would donk any piece of the flop, this is something that these types of players seem to do often (from my experience) and it fits with what we would have seen thus far. However, he checked TP there which means we'd have to adjust our notes accordingly and will probably find he's donking his draws/air and c/cing down his pairs (which is something these types of players are equally likely to do, and we want to be aware of which ones are doing which, because they don't often deviate once they fall into some kind of pattern).

Thanks, I really like the point about 'does he expect us to fold', this is something i need to consider more. Since when im just putting him on a hand range and it seems that its polarised im not getting the full picture.

Just one last question on the last hand. I totally understand that a good player would be capable of exploiting a blocking type bet on the river where this player won't. I wouldn't be expecting this player to bluffraise whatever size we bet.

So given that we are comfortable that we are well ahead of his range and we expect him to call a ton anyway, why not just bet big as Tarek did and take extra value.

BTW gread vid and i appreciate your taking time to reply.

first hand: you say if villain had 10 9 he played it badly. How would you play 10 9 ?

first hand: you say if villain had 10 9 he played it badly. How would you play 10 9 ?

An 8 is such a tiny part of our range (as the villian) in that spot that I probably raise the turn, I can't expect a regular to bet a missed FD on the river, nor do I want to get bluffed off potentially the best hand when I bet a scary river, unless we're planning to call the turn and fold the river everytime we don't hit a FH, which I think is pretty weak.

Just one last question on the last hand. I totally understand that a good player would be capable of exploiting a blocking type bet on the river where this player won't. I wouldn't be expecting this player to bluffraise whatever size we bet.

First off, betting bigger on the river is totally fine and standard. But what I've done in this video (and moreso the next one) is to look at lines perhaps we wouldn't normally. The thing I want to ask myself when I'm value betting the river in this case is, "Can villian show up here with an ace?", and the answer is clearly "yes, definitely, but most of the time we're ahead and getting value". So I think the times he calls with a worse hand and the times he calls with an ace even the hand out (slightly in our favour) no matter what our sizing. However, what we really don't want is to get raised on this river as we always have to fold (vs this particular villian). This is a lot less of a pain if we've bet slightly smaller (not to mention that it can certainly induce this particular villian to call with a looser range).

An 8 is such a tiny part of our range (as the villian) in that spot that I probably raise the turn, I can't expect a regular to bet a missed FD on the river, nor do I want to get bluffed off potentially the best hand when I bet a scary river, unless we're planning to call the turn and fold the river everytime we don't hit a FH, which I think is pretty weak.

Note on this, if he has Tc9c or Th9h I think his turn play is fine - but he can't have either of those. After discussing the hand in question with a Higher Power I would like to nominate 97s as a holding that can actually make sense (I don't think this player defends pre flop often enough with any 96 or 97o). My real problem here is narrowing him down to 2, or really 1 hand he can have vs putting him on a range, vs the fact that he should never be bluffing here (which is good or bad depending on who you are and how you think about these things), vs the fact that this isn't a great bluffing spot, vs the fact that he may or may not know all or any of those things