Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

Both players are basically unknown, no reads. CO is 11/11 after 29 hands and looks like a nitty reg, SB is 25/8 after 25 hands. On the turn, he has $78 left. What do you do?


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1857952
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MP: $157.90
CO: $52.50
Hero (BTN): $223.50
SB: $100.50
BB: $100.00
UTG: $106.85

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with J J
2 folds, CO raises to $3, Hero raises to $9, SB calls $8.50, 1 fold, CO calls $6

Flop: ($28.00) 4 6 7 (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $13, SB calls $13, CO folds

Turn: ($54.00) 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero ???

I would rather call preflop if CO is nitty.

As played, I would b/f turn for about $26-$27 to get value from hands like 88-TT. If we get raised, it's a pretty easy fold.

I would rather call preflop if CO is nitty.

As played, I would b/f turn for about $26-$27 to get value from hands like 88-TT. If we get raised, it's a pretty easy fold.

Are you set mining when you flat CO pre-flop? Villians 11% opening range has a lot of equity versus us its not so bad if he folds. We still have 47% versus his continuing range AQo+TT+.
Also we don't bet to extract value from certain parts of villains range. We bet because its +EV against villains entire range. I agree turn is a clear barrel spot fishes range is wide enough for cold calling 3bets.

Are you set mining when you flat CO pre-flop?

No.

Villians 11% opening range has a lot of equity versus us its not so bad if he folds. We still have 47% versus his continuing range AQo+TT+.

It's not bad if he folds, but I don't think 3 betting is better than calling.

Also we don't bet to extract value from certain parts of villains range. We bet because its +EV against villains entire range. I agree turn is a clear barrel spot fishes range is wide enough for cold calling 3bets.

In this case we are betting to extract value, at least that is where the majority of our ev comes from.

[quote]



[quote]It's not bad if he folds, but I don't think 3 betting is better than calling.[quote]

Can you please ellaborate other than because villian is nitty?

[quote]In this case we are betting to extract value, at least that is where the majority of our ev comes from.[/quote]
Our expected value comes from a combination of fold equity and pot equity

It's not bad if he folds, but I don't think 3 betting is better than calling..

Can you please ellaborate other than because villian is nitty?

In this case we are betting to extract value, at least that is where the majority of our ev comes from.

Our expected value comes from a combination of fold equity and pot equity

Can you please ellaborate other than because villian is nitty?

Because unless we have a read that villain will call reasonably wide, or 4 bet reasonably wide, then JJ has more value calling pre than it does 3 betting, imo.

Our expected value comes from a combination of fold equity and pot equity

Thanks. I was unaware of that.

Because unless we have a read that villain will call reasonably wide, or 4 bet reasonably wide, then JJ has more value calling pre than it does 3 betting, imo..

JJ has good equity even vs a tight defending range. Do you use the same logic for say a hand like 88 and if so why/why not? we also need to consider villains postflop tendencies and players behind, squeezing multiway pot and how this effects our equity.

Thanks. I was unaware of that.

No Sarcasm there lol im not try to talk down your post or prove you wrong obv you know what your talking about. Im just saying wording this way sometimes confuses people when we say value from X part of range when we just consider our equity versus entire range.

Preflop
Stats 11/11 after 29 hands mean nothing. This could be a 30/24 aggro reg.
Nevertheless, very easy 3b for value pre in BTNvsCO battle. SB's cold call is interesting, looks like { 99-JJ, KQs, AQs }

Flop
1/2 c-bet is fine.

Turn
UNDERbet for $22 to keep his worse hands in -> pot OTR will be $98 with $56 remaining stacks.
It will be very confusing if he will x/r AI, but I wouldn't fold for the few reasons:
- by UNDERbetting we underrepresent our hand, we look weak, like AQ+ or a FD and him x/r 99-TT is possible
- that could be also AQ/KQ, especially with turned diamond FD
- given the range we put him on there are no better hands
- some flatted premiums are possible, but I'd discount at least half of them

You will get 27% pot odds vs his x/r OTT.

Board: 4h 6s 7d 4d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 72.378% 72.38% 00.00% 414 0.00 { JcJs }
Hand 1: 27.622% 27.62% 00.00% 158 0.00 { AdAh, AdAs, AhAs, TT, 9d9h, 9d9s, 9h9s, AdQd }


River
If he decides to x/c OTT I would shove on cards different than A, K, Q, T, 9, (about 23 cards, half of the deck, but it's unlikely you will get called by 99-TT on those)

JJ has good equity even vs a tight defending range. Do you use the same logic for say a hand like 88 and if so why/why not? we also need to consider villains postflop tendencies and players behind, squeezing multiway pot and how this effects our equity.

I was making the argument in regards to villain being nitty, which may or may not be the case. For some reason thought sample size was bigger. Against an unknown I would 3 bet.

Are you asking if I would play 88 the same way as JJ? I would probably call 88, but not necessarily for the same reasons I would call JJ (if I call). If there are habitual squeezers behind, then I would be more inclined to just call with JJ, with the intention of 4 betting over a squeeze.

No Sarcasm there lol im not try to talk down your post or prove you wrong obv you know what your talking about. Im just saying wording this way sometimes confuses people when we say value from X part of range when we just consider our equity versus entire range.

When I say we get value from X part of his range, I mean that in the sense that it is where most of our ev comes from. I don't expect to get folds from worse. There is also some ev against overcards depending on how wide villain floats oop. I see nothing wrong with categorizing it as a value bet, even though that doesn't always tell the whole story when it comes to the ev of a bet.