Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (CO): $103.71
BTN: $105.18
SB: $119.36
BB: $105.57
UTG: $32.56
MP: $60.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has T T

fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.50, fold, SB calls $2.00, fold

Flop: ($6.00, 2 players) 7 8 J
SB checks, Hero bets $4.00, SB calls $4.00

Turn: ($14.00, 2 players) A
SB checks, Hero bets $10.00, SB calls $10.00

River: ($34.00, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero bets $23.00, SB raises to $102.86 and is all-in, fold

SB wins $77.20

Villian was a 23/16 reg didn't seem to get to out of line which i think is what confused me.
basically by the river i was turning my hand into a bluff trying to make villain fold Jx
When villain jams the river i was a little confused as i expect villain to raise flop with 77,88,78,9T and JJ and I didn't think he would jam FD on the river.
Is this ever a bluff??
and what do you guys think of my line is my hand too good to turn into a bluff??

It's a bad bluff spot for villain since we have all the nut hands in our range. I think it's a pretty good spot to turn you hand into a bluff as you do since the A hits our percieved range and villain is unlikely to have Ax in his range + we have equity against almost everything in villains range. When the flush card hits it's obviously a good bluff spot but I would generally fire 3 here with or without the flush river unless I knew that villain likes to bluff catch.
As played I think villain would ship the nut flush and he probably has some slowplays in his range as well. But well played.

It's a bad bluff spot for villain since we have all the nut hands in our range. I think it's a pretty good spot to turn you hand into a bluff as you do since the A hits our percieved range and villain is unlikely to have Ax in his range + we have equity against almost everything in villains range. When the flush card hits it's obviously a good bluff spot but I would generally fire 3 here with or without the flush river unless I knew that villain likes to bluff catch.
As played I think villain would ship the nut flush and he probably has some slowplays in his range as well. But well played.

Agreed. I like your line. I think once the flush card comes this is a mandatory 3 barrel.

looks good, fwiw i think we should bet/fold river with the nut flush and everything weaker and call with every boat.

Answer these questions for me:

1) What do you think his preflop calling range is?
2) Given your answer to 1, what do you think his flop check calling range is?
3) Given your answer to 2, what do you think his turn check calling range is?

Don't see why so many people think this hand is played fine. Answer Grindcore's questions and I think you will see that turn bet is likely a mistake.

Don't see why so many people think this hand is played fine. Answer Grindcore's questions and I think you will see that turn bet is likely a mistake.

That's what I was thinking. And that river is a check.

I also think the flop should be a check back as it doesn't accomplish much against a typical SB flatting range.

Answer these questions for me:

1) What do you think his preflop calling range is?
2) Given your answer to 1, what do you think his flop check calling range is?
3) Given your answer to 2, what do you think his turn check calling range is?

Preflop range looks something like 22-JJ, suited Broadway's (maybe some bigger suited connectors),and KJo+.
Flop calling range is JTs+,KJo+,89s,88-JJ,and broadway FD
Turn calling range JTs+,KJo,88,JJ and FD although inthink villian raises alot of his sets and 2pairs here or on flop in case I check through The river.
So I still think tuen bet is +ev. Maybe not the river since all his flushes got there

I also think the flop should be a check back as it doesn't accomplish much against a typical SB flatting range.

Do we not bet here for value/protection especially since villian doesn't like folding to cbets

Preflop range looks something like 22-JJ, suited Broadway's (maybe some bigger suited connectors),and KJo+.
Flop calling range is JTs+,KJo+,89s,88-JJ,and broadway FD
Turn calling range JTs+,KJo,88,JJ and FD although inthink villian raises alot of his sets and 2pairs here or on flop in case I check through The river.
So I still think tuen bet is +ev. Maybe not the river since all his flushes got there

Yeah river is lighting money on fire.

If he has 2 pair or better, checking turn is better than betting as you get to see another card. His FDs quite often have Ax in them given that the J is a spade, so there shouldn't be much in his turn calling range you can 3barrel bluff against. This means you should look at the turn bluff in a vacuum. Is he folding enough combos to make the bet better than a check? Also if he doesn't like folding to cbets he might checkraise bluff the turn with a floated KQ (or have hit it with AQ AT). Also he probably doesn't "like" folding to cbets because he simply has a strong range when he flats pre. The read you gave was that he didn't seem out of line, which is not consistent with him being a floater.

Do we not bet here for value/protection especially since villian doesn't like folding to cbets

Don't rely on general things like that. Think about what your cbet accomplishes against each combo in his range. If he hit the flop you're behind and cbetting sucks. If he missed the flop you quite often get checkraised as any T has a gutshot and his broadways are mostly suited so he has a FD or backdoor FD half the time. Also he can bluff the turn with hands that fold to a cbet, which you can call down.

Don't rely on general things like that. Think about what your cbet accomplishes against each combo in his range. If he hit the flop you're behind and cbetting sucks. If he missed the flop you quite often get checkraised as any T has a gutshot and his broadways are mostly suited so he has a FD or backdoor FD half the time. Also he can bluff the turn with hands that fold to a cbet, which you can call down.

Ok so what should our cbetting range look like on this flop ??? Are you more inclined to cbet polarized since we expect to take a xr often. Or do we just give up since we dont expect villian to fold much and bluff catch good cards?

Ok so what should our cbetting range look like on this flop ??? Are you more inclined to cbet polarized since we expect to take a xr often. Or do we just give up since we dont expect villian to fold much and bluff catch good cards?

There are many different ways to construct your ranges. It all depends on how villain plays, which depends on how good he is, how he perceives us, etc. In general villains preflop calling range is much stronger than our raising range, so this is a board we can't be aggressive on (unless he has leaks you know you can exploit). Since we have to give up with a lot of air, it's better to balance your check-give-ups with made hand checks than balancing your valuebets with bluffs (again, unless you can exploit).

Flop
I'd check behind here. A bet is usually bad, because:
- he will fold worse pocket pairs, besides 99 maybe
- he can x/r you with lots of hands that have plenty of equity against your hand
- you have no implied pot odds on 9/T (no one is gonna pay you off on 4-2-str8 board)

Flop calling range is JTs+,KJo+,89s,88-JJ,and broadway FD

JJ is more likely to 3b pre, same with TT. I wouldn't also be sure if he flats SCs on SB. AJ shouldn't be entirely discounted. There are also no AsXs hands in your range.

Board: 7s 8c Js
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.274% 43.54% 00.74% 15948 269.50 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 55.726% 54.99% 00.74% 20143 269.50 { 99, AsQs, AJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, KsQs, KJs, KsTs, Ks9s, QJs, QsTs, Qs9s, JTs, 98s, KJo }

Turn
Your equity decreases to 39.520%. Now the question is: is he capable of folding Jx hands or even some combo draws on this turn card? If yes, betting will be +EV with fold equity.

However, I omitted floats with AT and AQ - and those can seriously screw up your equity and make betting -EV (both pot equity and fold equity decrease). Without information about his float tendencies I'd check.