Podcasts Poker Forums

Part of my first post:

...OP:
I apologize. I should have included the link earlier. http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/26-Full-Ring-No-Limit

Thanks. I will post the hand there.

This is one of the strangest threads ever. A guy who claims he isn't a bad player has given off an image that will help his bottom line, yet he's too petty to be happy about it. I hope most of my opponent's are like OP because I'm guessing his ego leads to a fair amount of tilting.

Even though I'm the biggest winner in my local game over the past couple of years, people in that game don't even realize it. THAT'S A GOOD THING. I don't get my panties in a bunch because they don't respect my game enough to think I'm the best player. I love it when they actually think I make bad plays.

@OP, who the F cares if someone calls you a donk? Get over it. If you get hung up on little crap like that, then you'll waste a good bit of your life focusing on the wrong things.

Fair enough. Thanks.

U mad?

This is one of the strangest threads ever. A guy who claims he isn't a bad player has given off an image that will help his bottom line, yet he's too petty to be happy about it. I hope most of my opponent's are like OP because I'm guessing his ego leads to a fair amount of tilting.

Even though I'm the biggest winner in my local game over the past couple of years, people in that game don't even realize it. THAT'S A GOOD THING. I don't get my panties in a bunch because they don't respect my game enough to think I'm the best player. I love it when they actually think I make bad plays.

@OP, who the F cares if someone calls you a donk? Get over it. If you get hung up on little crap like that, then you'll waste a good bit of your life focusing on the wrong things.

I really like this post. I think many people I have played with think I am a donk, also some regulars at one of the rooms I play at actually have said to other people that they think I am one of the worst players. This is amazing for me getting action and invites to amazing games. The quicker you realize this is actually amazing and not a reason to get tilted the better for you.

I fully appreciate the value of being seen as a donk.

I was just a bit shocked to hear the amount of information Bart felt he had gathered from one hand that I guarantee is only marginally bad, if bad at all.

But I guess enough has been said.

Tecmo nailed it (as so often), and OP, letting your ego-hit beside (which you obviously took), the naked argument of saying Bart was wrong by making conclusions too quickly based on one single hand is off, imho. It´s live poker, we don´t have the time to watch 100´s of hands to build a proper profile, supported by our HUD´s. We have to build that profile very quickly - and we risk that it´s incomplete or even wrong. But even if it turns out to be completely wrong in 20%, in 80% it´s correct or at least close to, so I don´t see the problem ...

If you think stacking off with kings on an 8-high board leads you to the conclusions Bart reached (have you listened to the podcast?), then yeah...that's bad poker.

My advice: get rid of notions that a player is bad or good and think more in terms of tendencies. Players have leaks and strengths and labelling someone good or bad is probably painting the with too broad a brush.

The fact that you called his monster 3bet with QTo and the part where you fail to recognize that being labeled as a donk is actually good for you, says enough about your true skill level..

OP, this is clearly about your ego and not Bart's analysis. You are now trying to portray that it was always just about the analysis, but if that were true, then you would have had plenty of other opportunities to criticize Bart. He's done like 400 broadcasts of various natures and you just so happen to think he got it wrong in the section where he criticizes your own play. I hope you see where the obvious bias in your perception causes issues with lending proper credibility to your statements.

OP, this is clearly about your ego and not Bart's analysis.

I hope you're not trying to clear up his misperceptions.

I started the thread because I was offended. Pure ego--I agree.

That doesn't change the fact that profiling a person off of a single hand is bad, and it points to what is possibly a larger problem that Bart may or may not have--justifying his own bad play on the subsequent hand by making the villain out to be so horribly bad that they can't possibly be sophisticated enough to play a better hand (postflop) the way I did in that spot. He even put pocket tens in my shoving range on an AKJ board--based off of me shoving KK on a coordinated board in the only hand he remembers seeing me play (aside from the supposed limp from the c/o).

I left that session with a net profit of $2600, so he was able to see me play several other hands after the hand in which I stacked him. No mention of those, obviously...I suspect because they don't support the read he had on me.

Anyway, I'm being petty, and admit its been about ego. If you think
No other points have been raised that were worth discussing, that's fine.

The fact that you called his monster 3bet with QTo and the part where you fail to recognize that being labeled as a donk is actually good for you, says enough about your true skill level..

The part where reading his obvious squeeze for what it was and my actual hand not mattering in that spot says a lot about your own skill level.

Bart nailed the flop and still almost laid his hand down. You don't realize how calling there completely disguises my hand and makes it an easy steal on any board he doesn't connect with in a big way? Like I said, he had been actively 3betting and was actually appearing a bit spewy himself. After the qt hand, more people at the table started playing back at Bart and his aggression started to work against him. I'm sure that wasn't a session he wants to remember accurately.

I was lucky to flop the nuts. Every other time he flops less than two pair, i'm taking the pot solely by playing my position.

I commend you for admitting it was about your ego.

As for basing reads off 1 hand, I agree we should take those reads with a grain of salt, but sometimes 1 hand can in fact allow you to infer a great deal. I'm not going to get into the merits of the KK hand strategically, but I'd imagine he probably didn't mention future hands that you played which changed his read because it didn't affect future hands being discussed. I could be wrong though since I haven't listened to that particular episode.

ah you gotta play the player not your cards right

do you by any chance have some money online some where, so you can teach me your superior way of thinking in a 50k hands HU grudge match?

ah you gotta play the player not your cards right

do you by any chance have some money online some where, so you can teach me your superior way of thinking in a 50k hands HU grudge match?

Not yet, but I'm moving to brazil soon and will be glad to indulge you.

.05/.10 blinds?

ah you gotta play the player not your cards right

do you by any chance have some money online some where, so you can teach me your superior way of thinking in a 50k hands HU grudge match?

The player and the position.

I commend you for admitting it was about your ego.

As for basing reads off 1 hand, I agree we should take those reads with a grain of salt, but sometimes 1 hand can in fact allow you to infer a great deal. I'm not going to get into the merits of the KK hand strategically, but I'd imagine he probably didn't mention future hands that you played which changed his read because it didn't affect future hands being discussed. I could be wrong though since I haven't listened to that particular episode.

Thanks. I think listening to the podcast is essential to getting the point im trying to make. One hand can tell you a lot, but...well, please just give it a listen.

How did he mention you in the podcast? I can understand all of this if he called you out (by name) but if he's just like "some recreational player opened to $35..." etc. I think this is kind of excessive.

Thanks. I think listening to the podcast is essential to getting the point im trying to make. One hand can tell you a lot, but...well, please just give it a listen.

I don't have a current sub, but if somewhere down the road I listen, then I'll make sure to come back and tell you how wrong or right you were

Thanks! I appreciate the feedback you've already given.

How did he mention you in the podcast? I can understand all of this if he called you out (by name) but if he's just like "some recreational player opened to $35..." etc. I think this is kind of excessive.

It wasn't by name, and it wasnt a question of other people knowing he was referring to me. But he went much further than "recreational player".

Anyway, even I feel like I've exhausted this topic and probably anything more than the first post was already too much.

lol live poker.

Not yet, but I'm moving to brazil soon and will be glad to indulge you.

.05/.10 blinds?

meh too low, nvm then

meh too low, nvm then

How about Call of Duty then?

i think both sides are wrong

for one bart should not rate a villain good or bad, or use incompetent established terms as "recreational player" that imply you are superior to them in the matter of knowledge and such in a more sophisticated way. this is a "leak" if you will that is born out of disrespect and might let barts students think that it is this piece of mind that makes you a winner. while it is not. what makes bart a winner is what he thinks this player does and more importantly how to react to that. so why would you even find a general term for those leaks (most common, most general is "fish".. cool, he is a fish, im gonna win. nope)?

on the other hand i am on jasons side. i am not surprised that you are making fun of him, i am not surprised you tell him to shut up and be happy that you are perceived as being "bad".. while something is missing in all of that, namely respect. the reason i hate being seen as a poker player is exactly this. there is no idea of companionship between players, that are simply playing a game. there is no respect for yourself (your game), no respect for others and their game. it is me against the world!

and you guys are proposing jason to do the same thing, congratulations. jason got caught on the wrong food, now he is hurt and oh yeah, hes gonna tilt, im gonna make so much money out of that idiot. hahah im gonna make him suffer so badly.

speaking professionally this may be part of the game. but why is it taken off the tables then?

instead of trying to solve this issue you are trying to take advantage over people, trying see where jasons flaws are and kill him. nobody in here was talking about how unstable jason's understatement of his own game might be and nobody was talking about that somebody that is kinda famous in here was disrespectful to another player, simply because this has found acceptance in the entire community (hes a bad fish). you are the ones being listened to, so fuckin think before you say something. i mean what am i saying, i even expect that from you lol.

i was being insulted by stupid dc coaches as well, not in their videos though, but off the tables as well..
you are thinking i should be smarter than that? see their childish dumb behaviour as what it is? open your mouth then.

what would you do if a tennis trainer would say that in front of your entire class? "daniel is more of a reacreational player, he is bad" i would feel disrespected for a good reason. if another player would say that to me, i would feel the same. but in the actual case it is down to how influental a voice is to make it a big deal. even if your colleague would be saying that there should be a discussion about that, just because it came up. thats what it is all about isnt it? we try to grow upon this game. so lets go.

this discussion should be about respect for your and villains game and lead to a mindset that is actually +ev for everybody and would let the image of poker players blossom to a beautiful flower with cute little rabbits jumping around and the sun smiling at you. two dots and a semicircle, dude.

this thread was posted to me on skype with something like, "lol what a small mind that boy is". all you do in here is hoist yourself upon his back. wow.