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Donking turn after c/c flop line

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OMSDON

Avatar for OMSDON

16 posts
Joined 10/2008

Saw this hand in WSOP2010 coverage on ESPN:

Villain raises
Grinder calls with AQ from blinds
Heads-up to flop
flop Q89
Grinder check, Villain bets, Grinder calls
turn 8
Grinder bets

I very rarely see this line taken online but I think it's more common in live play. Why and when do you think it's used? Was Grinder thinking that Villain very often check this turn back but calls his donk bet with weaker hand?

Posted over 2 years ago

nrock5555

Avatar for nrock5555

31 posts
Joined 06/2008

didn't see the hand, nor do i have any clue of any relevant history which are the most important factors but players pot control turns much more frequently live vs online and from what i've heard in previous DP podcasts, players were rarely check raising the flop in the WSOP ME, so check raising for value may have repped too strong of a hand.

Posted over 2 years ago

mooboo

Avatar for mooboo

61 posts
Joined 09/2009

Good reasons for c/c flop, donk turn are:
-you have hit trips/two pair
-you have hit your draw, villain isn't likely to bet the turn and there are other draws possible (so you could also be bluffing)
-a bluff bet is +EV, but a bluff c/r isn't and you can't c/c (for example if you called the flop with a weak hand like gutshot + overcards)

In the hand you mentioned, AQ isn't strong enough to raise for value at any point. But it's strong enough to bet 3 streets for value (especially flop and turn). This is difficult to do OOP, but the 8 is a good card to value lead the turn with TPTK because your hand (which can't stand a raise) is protected against getting bluffed by the fact that you also have some 8s in your range which you would play the same way.

Posted over 2 years ago

livebikebart

Avatar for livebikebart

276 posts
Joined 03/2008

This is definitely well said Mooboo. I also think that Grinder's bet sizing was probably the same as the amount that he would call each street and he definitely could get called by worse which otherwise would not bet. As played the river is an easy bet fold. It would have been a much more interesting hand if the amateur had raised him small on the turn.

Posted over 2 years ago

OMSDON

Avatar for OMSDON

16 posts
Joined 10/2008

I guess this line can be used only against passive weak opponents who is not capable of bluff rising you, right?

Posted over 2 years ago




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