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Hero shows 6 6 (three of a kind, Sixes)
SB mucks 6 K
MP shows K 8 (two pair, Kings and Eights)
Hero wins 27.2 BB

BTN shows 2 4 (a pair of Deuces)
Hero shows 5 5 (three of a kind, Fives)
UTG mucks 6 6
Hero wins 14 BB
Hero wins 20.2 BB

What, is this really on PokerStars... I thought PS was passive compared to EU sites It must have been a very nice session

BTW very nice aggressiveness there. In the 55 hand I would expect to be crushed by BTN's over set very often - but seems I'm so off handreading atm.

zOMG, biggest pot in the history of my ever!!!

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 103082
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG posts a big blind (1 SB)

Pre Flop: (2.4 SB) Hero is SB with 5 5
UTG checks, CO calls, BTN calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls, BTN calls

Flop: (10 SB) 3 2 5 (5 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG 3-bets, CO folds, BTN calls, Hero caps!, BB calls, UTG calls, BTN calls

Turn: (13 BB) 8 (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises all in, BTN 3-bets, Hero caps!, BB calls, BTN calls

River: (27 BB) Q (4 players - 1 is all in)
Hero bets, BB folds, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, BTN caps!, Hero calls

Final Pot: 35 BB
BTN shows 2 4 (a pair of Deuces)
Hero shows 5 5 (three of a kind, Fives)
UTG mucks 6 6
Hero wins 14 BB
Hero wins 20.2 BB
(Rake: $0.40)

I haven't played limit in ages, so I don't really understand why you raised 55 pre flop. Is this correct?

I haven't played limit in ages, so I don't really understand why you raised 55 pre flop. Is this correct?

Nothing and everything is correct in LHE (thought it was the same in NL too) - the question is just the reason for making the play.

But with so many players in the pot already, who will all call a raise I think it's a pretty good play considering our IO. We flop a set about 1 of 8 - making the odds 7:1 or about 11%.

When Lysistrata raised here preflop I think it was based on the following conditions.

Pot was already 4.4 SB's, she had .4 SB in the pot already and a raise therefore costed 1.6SB (please correct if I'm wrong with the SB size), the BB and all the limpers are likely to call the raise for 1SB more, making the predicted pot-size 10SB's - without IO and further betting in the hand she therefore needed, 16% Equity (remember % for a set of 11%) so it's not a hot/cold + EV raise.

But all the implied odds a set will give makes it a + EV play. Sure there are RIO spots aswell, but sum sum sum I'm pretty sure it's a profit raise.

Also if she misses the flop, she doesn't have to cbet. Flop I would personally bet on: Axx, 5xx, 643, 234,

I don't think there's much value in raising here, but if there were 2 more limpers I'm definitely ok with it. A lot of the value of raising comes from being able to take a free card when you want, but I don't think there's quite enough value overlay from making it worthwhile preflop. I'd probably limp 22-77 here and raise 88+.

Rob

Omg post 200 in this thread! Had to take the chance !

I haven't played limit in ages, so I don't really understand why you raised 55 pre flop. Is this correct?

1) Thanks, Isac! I appreciate a more articulate and complete version of my thought process. I also felt like I had the table by the balls, TBH.
2) I am a maniac and I've only been playing 1-2 months.
3) @random_99: While I appreciate the opportunity to re-evaluate my play, and I think that your posts have some useful information, I don't think that they're as helpful as they could be because of their passive aggressive nature. E.g. (emphasis added):

Playing limit games with 100BB is just plain wrong. The best limit payers in the world have 100BB downswings all the time. I think you should keep studying hard and move down to 10c/20c. There is no shame in that whatsoever. Don't think that because you have a series you have to be playing at the 'proper limits.' Don't think that you're letting anyone down, you're not. Maybe you could also get Pygmy to do a live sweat session with you.

I mean, my impression was that we were a group that welcomed n00bs/microlimit people trying to learn. While I'm okay with you joining the group (not that I have any say, being one of the most recent members), I'd prefer if you made a little more effort to make sure that your comments had more of a tone of constructive critism, rather than just critism.

Hi Lysistrata.

If you think i'm offensive you should check out 2+2 Seriously though if I did offend you I am sorry.

I don't really understand these groups. I'm not a member so I guess I shouldn't post here. All i'm playing at the moment is a bit of triple draw and I may even give up poker for good.

Good luck with your game.

I don't think there's much value in raising here, but if there were 2 more limpers I'm definitely ok with it. A lot of the value of raising comes from being able to take a free card when you want, but I don't think there's quite enough value overlay from making it worthwhile preflop. I'd probably limp 22-77 here and raise 88+.

Rob

Yeah I agree that the value, if present, is razor thin. disclaimer: pretty good < ok < good (In my cracked danish mind)

Not sure what I wanted with my post other than defend Lysistratas raise in a mathematical way . I mean, it can't be that big of an error to either call or raise, as long we agree that we are never folding?

Group question

If you had Lysis' seat here, what range would you limp along and what range would you raise - and why ? We assume that the players are LP.

damn I'm tired, gn all. Have a nice weekend.

I would totally limp along the 55 out of position multiway... as well as 22, 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, 99, 78s, 89s, 9Ts, JTs/o, T8s, J9s, QJs/o, QTs/o, Q9s, K9s,

The key for me here is being out of position with too many opponents. Half of those I would raise if we were on the button, and even more would be raised if there were fewer opponents in the pot with us whether we were in position or not.

If people wanna raise hands like that out of position multiway then that's fine... but that's more of a high variance LAG style imo, which can have greater rewards but kinda tricky in these extreme rake loose games when our own post flop 'skills' are not exactly expert... I sometimes think the LAG style is better for playing against tight players, or a style best used by really solid players who know the game inside out.

Note the difference between:

Getting in pots with speculative hands out of position with many loose players for value (good)
(easy to hit big or get away from)

and

Raising speculative hands out of position with too many loose opponents (high variance?)
(possible to hit slightly bigger/get more action because people don't respect you, but more expensive to get away from even if you don't C-Bet, and greater danger of making expensive post flop errors ie continuing on bad boards)

And please note this all changes if we had position or less opponents.

Hi Lysistrata.

If you think i'm offensive you should check out 2+2 Seriously though if I did offend you I am sorry.

I don't really understand these groups. I'm not a member so I guess I shouldn't post here. All i'm playing at the moment is a bit of triple draw and I may even give up poker for good.

Good luck with your game.

No worries - like I said, I think the info in both posts were useful, just a little aggressive for my taste/this group. As for 2p2, that's why I'm a member here, imo.

I would totally limp along the 55 out of position multiway... as well as 22, 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, 99, 78s, 89s, 9Ts, JTs/o, T8s, J9s, QJs/o, QTs/o, Q9s, K9s

Though AR and I are polar opposites in playing styles, I like this as a starting point. I differ in that I like to raise 77-99 and I def raise JTs, QJ and QT. Agree with the high variance statement.

On a different note, I just got back from AC and got to meet some many other awesome DCers, including aumorgan and it was such a blast! Wish you all could have come!

I wanted to share a hand I played that was totally badly played by me (I think 100% of the people I told this story to was like, "Um, why'd you do that?") but it was completely hilarious to me.

Full ring, $2/4 limit

Folded to me in MP. I look down at JJ. I raise. Maniac next to me 3 bets. Both blinds call. I cap. 4 players to the flop.
Flop comes down AKK. Both blinds check. I bet. (When I'm later asked why I bet, I responded, "for value" at which point I think the asker politely bit back the urge to say, "That's retarded.") 3 calls.
Turn = 5 (board is rainbow)
I bet. 3 calls.
River = 4
I bet. PF 3-better folds, 2 calls.

I flip up 2 pair and announce that I have jacks, thinking that someone probably stayed in with A2o or something. They look at the board. Look at their hands. Look at the board. Look at their hands... and they muck! I turned to the guys next to me and asked, "I... win?" One of the guys' eyes widen and says, "They held up!" It kinda felt like I sucked out... even though I bet every street with the best hand, apparently.

"They held up!"

Looks like you really found some super good games in AC.

You never found out what they were calling down with?

I would totally limp along the 55 out of position multiway... as well as 22, 33, 44, 66, 77, 88, 99, 78s, 89s, 9Ts, JTs/o, T8s, J9s, QJs/o, QTs/o, Q9s, K9s,

Great post in my mind AR.

From your limping range I would raise 88+, QTs+, QJo, JTs (8's being the median card is fine vs those huge ranges) vs. 3 random ranges and a little less than random wound't be a bad estimate IMO.

FWIW I don't agree with the expensiveness of getting away from our hand from, what's the difference from SB to BTN in this case? I mean, from SB we need to raise .75BB, from BTN we raise 1BB. From SB we don't know the action behind us when we improve, but we don't really care because we got a set, from the BTN we knows the action infront of us but not the action of the checkers if we bet. I would be much more tempted to cbet when IP then OOP because of the change to get folds and to get the free river card.

However Sweetjazz made a very nice post about it in the PTT ep 7 thread about the 55 hand

Sets don't hold up as much in multiway pots, so when you are getting the action on your set to make up the implied odds you need, your equity is often far from 100% (even though you'll generally be a clear favorite). Anyway, preflop is preflop and I do ultimately think it is fine, but I was surprised Mike that you are so enthusiastic about playing in this spot because I think it is very marginal.

Here the difference is just that we from SB calls the raise instead of raising.

On a note of being on SB or BTN I also think we needs to consider our postflop options and how likely the hand is to play out if we improve or if we doesn't. It's def. a very table dependant variable so while we on 1 table wound't be raised by a worse hand - we on the next table would be raised or bluffed.
But it's good for our development already to have a postflop plan before the flop comes. And a thing I like to work on when I play 1 table - no need to be in a rush so take the time needed. Side effects are just that the opponents either leaves or tilts in my experience.

BTW I would only consider raising 55 here because of the pot size, fewer opponents in I limp along without a doubt.

Looks like you really found some super good games in AC.

You never found out what they were calling down with?

Nope! Games are amazing in AC. I think Pyg has a story about a guy checking down quads.

From your limping range I would raise 88+, QTs+, QJo, JTs (8's being the median card is fine vs those huge ranges) vs. 3 random ranges and a little less than random wound't be a bad estimate IMO.

I like that our limping/raising ranges are pretty much identical. Strength in numbers, imo.

I can't actually get video to see the 55 hand - what was it like?

Nope! Games are amazing in AC. I think Pyg has a story about a guy checking down quads.

Yearh I read that on his blog... pretty amazing. I wish I could play a LHE live game, but DK casinos only runs NL games .

I like that our limping/raising ranges are pretty much identical. Strength in numbers, imo.

I can't actually get video to see the 55 hand - what was it like?

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/854-Episode-Seven#?seek=1520.443 is start of hand, Sweetjazz made a long comment on it.

Jaybeastie sits in SB w 55 in a 7handed 10/20 game, HJ posts-in 1SB.

Action is, UTG or, HJ folds (dead money ), CO cc, and it's Jay in SB. Pot is 6.5SB and Jay needs to call 1.5SB - which he does. Does he have the right price?