Pot Limit Omaha Poker Forums

Villain is a total maniac preflop, playing 83/33 over a 100 or so hands, and pretty spewy postflop. I'm not sure if any other reads are really necessary. I'm comfortable stacking off on this flop 100BBs deep, but at 200+ BBs deep I wasn't sure, so I just called the flop looking for a safe turn card. I was really lost on the turn, any advice would be really appreciated.

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players - View hand 434735
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: $17.25
BB: $38.50
UTG: $40.00
CO: $107.10
Hero (BTN): $111.80

UTG posts a big blind ($0.50)

Pre Flop: ($1.00) Hero is BTN with A A 2 6
1 fold, UTG checks, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.50, 2 folds, CO calls $2

Flop: ($6.00) K 9 A (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $6, CO raises to $24, Hero calls $18

Turn: ($54.00) T (2 players)
CO bets $54, Hero ???

Given the stack depth is such that you can make a committing 3bet on the flop, I prefer to just raise the flop. You can have him overset a decent amount of the time and you are flipping with a lot of his draws.

If your plan was to look for a safe turn card and then get the money in, you should probably be folding this turn. It isn't as bad as the T but it is damn close.

If you aren't folding to scary cards there isn't much point in waiting for a safe turn is there?

If you aren't folding to scary cards there isn't much point in waiting for a safe turn is there?

this. tbh though against this guy i just get it in on the flop. he's gonna get it in baaaad some of the time, and it's too easy for you to make a mistake on the turn if he does something like rep one draw (eg qjt here) while having another (hearts/spades).

eta: keep in mind that almost half the deck is a bad card in one way or another, so if you have any inkling that he's gonna do what he did in the hand, it's an auto-shove on the flop.

3bet da fl0p §§!

You need to move down in limits. If you're not happy sticking all your money in on that flop with the nuts, you're clearly entering too many situations with scared money.
The other options are to leave the table each time you win some money or to man up you wimp!

You need to move down in limits. If you're not happy sticking all your money in on that flop with the nuts, you're clearly entering too many situations with scared money.
The other options are to leave the table each time you win some money or to man up you wimp!

I'm not scared money, I have about 100 BIs for this limit. It's called learning. You've been posting a number of troll-ish comments lately in several threads that I don't think are helpful. As a producer you should be acting as a leader and giving advice as well as making quality videos, not writing disparaging comments. If you don't have any strategic advice then just don't say anything at all. Please don't turn this forum into 2+2 or Pocket 5s.

Thanks for the comments Jason and delcross, yeah I agree I should've just shoved the flop. How deep do you have to be before shoving is a bad idea?

I'm comfortable stacking off on this flop 100BBs deep, but at 200+ BBs deep I wasn't sure,

If you're not scared money, then why make this comment? There should be 0 issues with reraising here unless you are scared. Sorry if the truth offends you.

it is easy to play too tight when deep stacked.
This guy is the villain from heaven - he is gonna spew that stack in 100 hands or less.

Get it in on the flop, let him get it in bad with his wide range before he can hit a hand - and say a lickle prayer to the omaha gods as you do - it's the season of good will after all..

If you're not scared money, then why make this comment? There should be 0 issues with reraising here unless you are scared. Sorry if the truth offends you.

I'm sure there's a stack depth at which the only things you are getting it in against are a broadway wrap with a flush draw, where you are basically a coin flip. At that point, I would think calling and looking for a clean turn where your equity is better is a better play than just mindlessly shoving. He was a maniac so I think his range is wide enough here where shoving is correct. I guess I should've phrased my question better.

I suck at deep stack play, I have considered playing a lower limit at the deep tables and that's a valid comment.

Seriously though, stop being a troll. Telling someone to move down or telling them they shouldn't be playing PLO (which you did in a different thread) without offering any strategic advice really sets a bad example for the other people on this forum. If people can't post questions or hands where they make mistakes without getting these kinds of comments people will eventually stop posting.

One thing I have probs with is tightening up when I get deep stacked ( though this would be a clear shove still).

however in one of Tommys vids he talks about wider Ev than n a purely mathematical sense- in the sense that you should pass up some close situations IF LOSING THEM is gonna get you steaming.

obv that is not a long term solution, and means there are other problems in your game to work on.I am sure unconscious tightening up when deep stacked is a common prob for novices.....

Seriously though, stop being a troll. Telling someone to move down or telling them they shouldn't be playing PLO (which you did in a different thread) without offering any strategic advice really sets a bad example for the other people on this forum. If people can't post questions or hands where they make mistakes without getting these kinds of comments people will eventually stop posting.

In future, would you prefer I lie to you and tell you everything is okay?
Do not take criticism personally on a forum which is about coaching. If you can't handle being told the truth, don't ask for it.
The only reason you did not shove a set of aces on that flop is you were scared of losing 200 bets. You are in denial, which is also completely standard, i've seen it plenty of times before with poker players.
Don't bring your ego to the poker table, if you're not yet ready for a certain level, move down.

man up you wimp!

Well this is pretty trollish, and is in fact a personal comment. So I think tmarnold is justified in thinking you attacked him - you did.

Also, I think the error in this hand was more a miscalculation of equity vs. a range, not fear of losing a stack. If he thought the guy's raise-with-the-intent-of-getting-it-in range given the stack depth was fairly snug (even for a maniac), putting him in a 53/47ish scenario where he could be much better off on the turn, I can see the idea of waiting for the turn, especially IP (hopefully we're ALWAYS shipping this flop OOP without thinking twice). What he needs to realize is that against villain's range we're 60/40+ on the flop AND we can make a pretty big mistake on a lot of turns given his tendencies, so it's a value shove now. He even admits that in the thread. Again, I'm _not_ saying his logic is right, but I can see where he's coming from, and it's not necessarily fear of having a $200 flip.

It could be a $200 CRUSH vs KK. Dangerous turn stops the action or even worse, sees him make an incorrect fold.
He knew he should have shoved, but he didn't. It wasn't a question of optimal strategy because he already knew that. The only thing that stopped him from shoving was the fear of losing a big pot.
That's what he needs to come to terms with and if he can't he should move down a limit where a big pot would be equal to a full buy in at this limit.