Pot Limit Omaha Poker Forums

Merge $10.00 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 4 players - View hand 1757664
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $5.56
CO: $6.27
BTN: $16.25
Hero (SB): $10.69

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A A 7 9
1 fold, BTN raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.15, BB calls $1.05, BTN calls $0.80

Flop: ($3.45) 6 2 9 (3 players)
Hero bets $2.58, BB calls $2.58, BTN raises to $13.77, Hero folds

AI player is a 26/16 w/ 26% AFQ over 350 hands, folds to 3bet 50% over 8 samples. Player who calls vs my flop cb is 43/1 over 200 hands.

I folded because I felt like on this flop our likely-competent opponent is going to have enough sets to really hurt my hand. The recreational player's presence equity-wise in the pot isn't negligible, but I felt his call on the flop meant that I at least am 40/60 vs him if we were HU, so I'm happy that he's there, basically. But when the TAG goes AI, given the recreational player's SPR is so small and thus isn't as huge a factor as it could be in offering me odds to call, I really felt it was a sick spot. Being a holdem convert, I have a tendency to just wanna fold in these scenarios when I'm facing action from what looks like a reasonable player.

I don't really have a read on this TAG, which typically means that I haven't spotted him doing anything silly. The fact that he might have just TP really isn't any consolation to me when I'm thinking about his preflop range, which will include a lot of connected content, making the weaker single-pair portion of his made hand range still quite threating, despite the fact that I have his trips blocked. The main thing here is, this guy has a lot of sets. Just how many, I'm not sure, but I made an attempt at constructing his flop range.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 629
AsAh7s9h 25.76% (151,818 wins, 5,532 ties)
66RR!AA, 66[3-5][3-5]x, 66[4-7][4-7]!6x, 66[7-9][7-9]x, 22RR!AA, 22[A-5][A-5]x!AA, 99RR!AA, 99[6-8][6-8]x, 99[7-T][7-T]!9x, 99[8-J][8-J]!9x, 99[T-Q][T-Q]x, 3456x, 5678x , 789T, 689Tx, 79TJx, 9JQKx, 89TAx, K89Tx, Q89Tx, 89TJ 53.69% (318,731 wins, 6,933 ties)
TT-KK, 6, 9, 78, 345 20.55% (119,398 wins, 7,855 ties)

I need 26% equity to call vs his AI, assuming the rec player calls (he must and will do so 99% of the time).

Basically, my instinct is to imagine that the presence of the recreational player is good for calling because it gives me odds on the flop. However I am also assuming that the rec player's preflop call tightens the TAG's preflop range a bit. Postflop, I am imagining he might possibly play a bare 6 or 2 with just side cards (like an QKT6ds-type hand) on this flop aggressively vs me, given that he should expect me to sometimes be the type of player to fold an AA hand on this flop, and/or maybe because when I cbet I'm missing this flop some with my wider preflop 3betting range. On the other hand, with a player cold-calling in the BB, I wonder if he even has much in his preflop/flop range that would give him a single 6 or 2 without StrD's to go along with it on this flop, and I don't know if he'd prefer to call with a bare 6 and see if he improves, or just sort of go with the hand 3way (which I don't think is too bad of an idea here, is it?).

I really need someone who's both experienced with Omaha players and with ProPokerTools to help me make sure I've got his flop ranges correct. As of now I have that I should fold this flop, even though it's close, because rake is going to take away my thin profit (assuming that it exists here). Also note that the rec players flop range is mostly non-dominant hands, which I think 95% of the time is correct; however he is passive and probably not thinking reasonably all the time and may flat here thinking he should slowplay or something.

Okay, not sure why it does this, but I guess the forum emoticon command over-rides the ProPokerTools hand range converter. Any time you see , it's actually supposed to be a colon, ":" and an "x". Like, 89TAx is supposed to be 89TA : xx, or an 89TA hand with at least one suit.
Really sorry, I know it looks goofy as hell, but just bear with me.

Also note that the rec players flop range is mostly non-dominant hands, which I think 95% of the time is correct

Okay so I screwed up on the rec player's range. When you enter a "6" into a players hand range, it means, "any hand with a 6 in it". This includes 66xx, or 69xx, etc. So basically I inadvertently included all monsters in the rec players range. Instead of "6" as an entry for the loose passive player, I should have at the bare minimum put in 6!66, denoting, "all hands with a 6 in them, but NOT two 6's." When I change the rec players range elements to account for this (example, instead of "6", entering "6!66!96!62"), my equity goes up to 27.55%, which is more than enough for a call I think, even with rake (which is only roughly 2.5% for a merge player with a typical RB account).

Anyway I think it's worth discussing what would happen here HU vs the TAG. Under normal circumstances, the pot would be $2.35 on the flop, I would probably bet roughly $1.5, and his AI would be for $8.85. So I would need about 38% equity to call. With the ranges I've assigned him above, we only have 35% equity. What's surprising is, we have two nut backdoor FD's, and we're blocking a possible trips hand. It makes me a little paranoid that maybe I've constructed his range incorrectly, as we haven't exactly missed the flop, and yet, my estimates are such that we should fold? I know vs. a rec player, I would snappety-snap call, as he has TONS of TP w/ bare side card hands, probably 6xxx + gutters, etc.

Like I said, you can already clearly see that I've made a pretty substantial mistake here with ProPokerTools, and anyone who is really experienced with the program could really help me out here. Just merely giving a good breakdown of the TAGs preflop and flop ranges would be great, even if you aren't savvy on the ins and outs of ProPokerTools.

I haven't read all the text you've posted below the hand, but I'll say this: you have too much going for you (overpair, backdoor straight draw, two backdoor flush draws and a card blocking top set/top two), are too short and the pot's too big for me to fold here. Villain should be easily light enough that you can look him up profitably here. Would be a much closer spot for me if we were basically holding dry AAxx, but you have about as good a pair of aces for this board as you could hope to.

Thanks 5carab. I share your sentiments, and in this hand, the rec player's stack is giving me odds to call. However it seems like if I were HU vs the TAG who's got more connected material preflop, I'm not getting quite the odds to call. TP + 2 backdoor FD's, it's super-hard to fold HU vs this reg, but honestly in the future I feel like I can't call here. I mean, am I just not giving him a wide enough range in ProPokerTools? I need 38% equity to break-even (not considering rake), and it looks like I'll have 35%. Now, I understand, if he starts calling preflop with like 80% of his open range, then that's different. But that's not my read at this point.
Basically, intuitively I agree with you here. But analytically it looks like a mistake. If you need me to rewrite his range that I'm giving him in a different format so you can look at it, I can do that. I'm not sure if you have taken a look at the range I give him on the flop, but according to that we can't call an AI HU vs him.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
2,988,900 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 629
66RR!AA, 66[3-5][3-5]: xx, 66[4-7][4-7]!666: xx, 66[7-9][7-9]: xx, 22RR!AA, 22[A-5][A-5]!AA!222: xx, 99RR!AA, 99[6-8][6-8]: xx, 99[7-T][7-T]!999: xx, 99[8-J][8-J]!999: xx, 99[T-Q][T-Q]: xx, [3456-5678]: xx, [789T-9TJQ], 689T: xx, 79TJ: xx, 9JQK: xx, 89TA: xx, 89TK: xx, 89TQ: xx, 9TJA: xx, 9TJK: xx 63.39% (1,884,856 wins, 19,454 ties)
As7sAh9h 36.61% (1,084,590 wins, 19,454 ties)

So I put a few more hands in here and cleaned up a few stuff with the whole emoticon bullshit that was happening. Starting to get to a point where I think we can call, but really still can't unless I can get to at least 38% equity. I also didn't consider what he might do w/ a KK hand... Can anyone answer that?
So basically, what I need to do is bet more on the flop (closer to pot instead of $1.5 into $2.35), to make sure I can call?

I folded because I felt like on this flop our likely-competent opponent is going to have enough sets to really hurt my hand.

even OTB, villain doesn't have very many combos of sets, especially since you have a 9 in your hand.