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Poker Video: Pot-Limit Omaha by DJ Sensei (Micro/Small Stakes)

Hey DJ,
Thanks for the video it is really helpful and yes the the dollar sign is pronounced as an S lol. I will reply in detail later after re discussing the hand with my 666 PLO group and re watching the video. Just wanted to say thanks for now.

One more area of my game that needed improvement and those needs have been met! Thanks for the video, I personally enjoy those DC shorts the most considering video format, especially with clearcut tought process like in this one.

I think its also interesting how the SPR change influences our best pre-flop action. Lets say SPR=2, now i believe he will be folding more flops, our implied odds are bigger, flush-over-flush concept is a little more important. So in that situation hand like JT98 rainbow - what should we do vs 4bet OOP/IP ?
Anyway, thanks again for the vid!

I think you calculated the average EV somewhat wrong. I.e. 33+50 /2 or 50+100 /2 are only approximations that describe a linear function. The biggest mistake in the two examples would be the "hitting strongly" range for KK72ds where the actual equity is quite a lot bigger than the approximation. In the other cases presented it's a lot closer and probably a wash. But there are surely examples out there where the form of the function deviates even more from a linear approximation.

To remedy this, we would have to integrate the function, I think.

One more area of my game that needed improvement and those needs have been met! Thanks for the video, I personally enjoy those DC shorts the most considering video format, especially with clearcut tought process like in this one.

I think its also interesting how the SPR change influences our best pre-flop action. Lets say SPR=2, now i believe he will be folding more flops, our implied odds are bigger, flush-over-flush concept is a little more important. So in that situation hand like JT98 rainbow - what should we do vs 4bet OOP/IP ?
Anyway, thanks again for the vid!

I'm still excited to have a hand like JT98r facing a 4bet because we can semibluff more effectively on lots of pair+help flops. One thing to consider is that we need better equity to stack off against known AA** (40%+, to be exact). Also, he might even be widening his 4bet range when stacks are deeper!

I think you calculated the average EV somewhat wrong. I.e. 33+50 /2 or 50+100 /2 are only approximations that describe a linear function. The biggest mistake in the two examples would be the "hitting strongly" range for KK72ds where the actual equity is quite a lot bigger than the approximation. In the other cases presented it's a lot closer and probably a wash. But there are surely examples out there where the form of the function deviates even more from a linear approximation.

To remedy this, we would have to integrate the function, I think.

Correct! I assumed those areas linear for simplicity's sake (and because it was pretty close to true). In these particular cases I think it was close enough not to affect the resulting EV more than +/-$1, so our results still check out, but integrating definitely gives you more precision (and is fun!).

Hey DJ Sensei and Rubbishaka80,
Can one of you please explain what you are talking about in noob terms I realize the jist of it that basically the linear function you used to calculate the EV are not 100% accurate. Is this just something that Propokertools does wrong with the graph. Anyway of explaining it in simpler terms? I am guessing its not something we have to worry about since you [DJ] say that its off by only $1 or so but would be nice to fully comprehend what you to are talking about.
Thanks

ps: DJ Sensei Still haven't had a chance to re discuss this hand with the group will probably happen Tuesday and will post any questions that arise after. Once again thanks for the video.

Hey DJ Sensei and Rubbishaka80,
Can one of you please explain what you are talking about in noob terms I realize the jist of it that basically the linear function you used to calculate the EV are not 100% accurate. Is this just something that Propokertools does wrong with the graph. Anyway of explaining it in simpler terms? I am guessing its not something we have to worry about since you [DJ] say that its off by only $1 or so but would be nice to fully comprehend what you to are talking about.
Thanks

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/jj87dshelper.png/

The orange line is the (presumably) accurate equity graph from PPT. The blue diagonal lines are the simplified assumptions I made to calculate our total EV. You can see that the orange filled-in section above the blue line is a bit smaller than the orange filled-in section below the blue line (in the high-equity section) so the linear model will slightly overestimate our overall EV for this section. In the medium-equity section it is clearly very close to accurate. In the low-equity section it doesn't matter because we won't realize that equity.

Hey DJ that really clears things up thanks,
Discussed the hand with the group and we had one doubt. Say this was a multiway 4 bet pot 3 ways and we had AA** and the board comes down T98 with a flush draw. We have an SPR of 2:1 approx.

1] We would chk/fold dry Aces here right basically if we don't flop anything no backdoor nothing?
2] We normally need 33% equity to stack of in 4 bet pots does that changes now right since we have a SPR of 2:1 due to it being 3 ways? What equity do we need to stack of here...we came up with 25% but were not sure.
3] With AA** with a flush draw here I assume we would always stack of right? But what if we have only one of the following components to go with the AA, what if we have both. Basically at what point does this become a stack off. AA with only a gutshot OR backdoor flush draw Versus AA with both a gutshot and backdoor flush draw.

Hey DJ that really clears things up thanks,
Discussed the hand with the group and we had one doubt. Say this was a multiway 4 bet pot 3 ways and we had AA** and the board comes down T98 with a flush draw. We have an SPR of 2:1 approx.

1] We would chk/fold dry Aces here right basically if we don't flop anything no backdoor nothing?
2] We normally need 33% equity to stack of in 4 bet pots does that changes now right since we have a SPR of 2:1 due to it being 3 ways? What equity do we need to stack of here...we came up with 25% but were not sure.
3] With AA** with a flush draw here I assume we would always stack of right? But what if we have only one of the following components to go with the AA, what if we have both. Basically at what point does this become a stack off. AA with only a gutshot OR backdoor flush draw Versus AA with both a gutshot and backdoor flush draw.

1) Probably c/f multiway, yes, because this is one of the very worst flops for your hand.
2) The % you need to stack off has everything to do with SPR/pot odds and nothing to do with the # of players in the pot. Just compare what you're risking (your remaining stack) with what you have to gain (the existing pot plus any other stacks that go in) and do a simple pot odds calculation.
3) AA with a FD will pretty much always stack off, yes. The others its hard to say, but probably not if we're multiway. Remember that we need 40% to get it in HU with a 2:1 SPR, so thats tough to get to without a FD+.

1) Probably c/f multiway, yes, because this is one of the very worst flops for your hand.
2) The % you need to stack off has everything to do with SPR/pot odds and nothing to do with the # of players in the pot. Just compare what you're risking (your remaining stack) with what you have to gain (the existing pot plus any other stacks that go in) and do a simple pot odds calculation.
3) AA with a FD will pretty much always stack off, yes. The others its hard to say, but probably not if we're multiway. Remember that we need 40% to get it in HU with a 2:1 SPR, so thats tough to get to without a FD+.

hmmm I guess I typed that wrong I meant 1:2 SPR meaning there is twice as much in the pot compare to what we have left behind. Let me give an example to be clear:

Poker Stars $100.00 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players

Hero (SB): $100
BB: $100
UTG: $100
MP: $100
CO: $100
BTN: $100

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with AA**
1 fold, MP raises to $3, CO calls $3 , BTN raises to $10, Hero raises to $33, MP calls $30,CO calls $33, BTN calls $23

Flop: ($133.50) T 9 8 (3 players)

So in this case SPR would be 133.5[pot]/65.5[stack left]= 2.04
And our pot odds assuming only one person calls or ships all in is (133.5[current pot]+66[one shipper or caller])/65.5[our stack left] = 3.05

1} So if these calculations are right above ^^^. 2} How do I go from here to figuring out how much equity I need to stack off here. 3} To convert that calculating how good my hand has do be in real terms i.e. is AA with a backdoor flush good enough or do I need a gutshot to go with it etc.

4} Also in point number 3 you mentioned the 40% in a HU pot SPR of 2:1 spot your taking about a 3 bet pot here right. 5} This number is 33% in a HU 4 bet pot right . 6} So in the above case since the pot is MW which makes the SPR 1:2.04 this will reduce that 33% equity requirement to some number lower right? 7} Basically wondering how to calculate that number I think I used to know how to do this but don't remember anymore if you could explain it or give me a link to somewhere that does I would appreciate it.

Its late here and I hope all this makes sense.
Thanks

Here you need at most 25% (if you get one caller). If you get more callers, it will be 20% or less (you stand to win more without increasing your risk). In terms of practical play, you should probably just stick it in if you plan to stack off and checkfold if you don't.

I'm not going to do everything for you, but go to propokertools and play around with some equities and you'll get a feel for how much a BDFD and gutshot are worth to you against various stackoff ranges (nut straight, non-nut straight, 2pr, set, pair+FD, etc.)

Regarding #4, again it doesn't matter how many players are in the pot or how many bets went in preflop. All that matters is how much stack you have left and how much pot there is.

Required Equity = your stack / (your stack + their stack(s) + pot)

Thank you Sensie from me and on behalf of all the other members in my group.