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Poker Video: Pot-Limit Omaha by DJ Sensei (Mid Stakes)

Great video as always.

Two questions though.

Concerning the hand at around minute 32 I don't see the advantage of just calling on the flop. You talk about him most likely having a draw aswell when he just calls the 4bet and therefore recommend calling his minraise. Let's assume we just call and the same turn hits. But if we just call we don't have this information and we are lost again on the turn when the 6 of clubs makes our flush. The pot is big enough that he can easily get our entire stack in by the river if he wants to.

My question is now how you would proceed if you just call on the flop, check on the turn and get potted into. Are you still folding? If yes we're basically drawing to 6 clean outs and a backdoor.

For the second question I'd like to hear your opinion on how villain played his aces in the last hand. In my opinion he played it fine but what if the 8 on the turn was offsuit and we kept betting into him? Would you still be eager to get it in on the turn or would you just call and wait for the river since our equity is not that great against a made straight.

42:19. River ship oop w/ straight wrap on flush draw flop. DJ, you mention that one of the possible hands that villain has is AAxx on turn, but still suggest shipping the river that paired 4s. Villain slowplayed AAxx w/ NFD on flop, which was very surprising. But wouldn't you expect an overpair (KK/AAxx) to call that river a very high % of the time since any two pair hands on flop (e.g., 87) got counterfeited by the river & all the draws bricked & the way the board paired?

The advantage of just calling on the flop (assuming you're talking about the QJT8hhcc hand) is that, as we talked about, our equity against his getting-it-in range is not nearly as good as it looks (not to mention the awkwardness that can result on the turn if he just calls). He's giving us a great price to draw, and even though we have a lot of non-nut outs, its not like we have to stack off when we hit them, especially against an 80/0 player. If we call and the turn blanks and he pots into us, I am happy to fold.

I think the dude in the last hand played his AA just fine, he'll be up against a drawing hand more often than against a made straight and should want to get the monies in.

42:19. River ship oop w/ straight wrap on flush draw flop. DJ, you mention that one of the possible hands that villain has is AAxx on turn, but still suggest shipping the river that paired 4s. Villain slowplayed AAxx w/ NFD on flop, which was very surprising. But wouldn't you expect an overpair (KK/AAxx) to call that river a very high % of the time since any two pair hands on flop (e.g., 87) got counterfeited by the river & all the draws bricked & the way the board paired?

We're still in a pretty good spot to represent straight/trips/boat, so I like the river ship even when the 4 pairs. I mean, the price is good for us and we can't win by checking.

Good video. I think I disagree however somewhat with the combo draw hand on 25 mins. I think that it should be played more aggressively. Later in the video you comment that out of position draws are hard to play, and so it's easier to take the more aggressive option. I think that I would apply that logic to this hand.

board: KcTh3c
{Qh8cJhTc}45.67%
{KK**,AcTsJs4c,TT**,KTBB,AcJcQd7s} 54.33%

An 80/0 is gonna have a lot of K3, T3, weak naked KT that he’d fold to 3bet on flop. 80/0 donks even do this with naked K’s / weird air some non-zero % of the time. I’m not sure how big a sample the 80/0 stats were over but he did open-limp the button and also due to no of combo’s he has KT much more in his range than KK.

Given this fold equity and the money already in the pot I think that shipping the flop may be better than calling…

I know that he's probably not a reg but, even if we get it in here vs 2 pair and miss a donkey is gonna type a note along the lines of 'got it in big pot with just a draw'. This means that in future, he'll happily get it in deep vs us with weak hands when we have sets / 2 pairs etc. If by giving up at most 5% ev (assuming he folds 0% and always has those hands) then I think we can bank greater future ev spots. And if he loses he'll still have way over 100bbs so being deep in position against a steaming fish out to 'get you back' is always fun and massively ev

Also i've done some cals about how fold equity on the flop is for ev of shoving.

Folds 0%
Fold EV $0.00

Gambools 100%
win 152.44646
lose -146.58234
EV $5.86

Total$EV $5.86

Folds 20%
Fold EV $16.80

Gambools 80%
win 152.44646
lose -146.58234
EV $4.69

Total$EV $21.49

Folds 30%
Fold EV $25.20

Gambools 70%
win 152.44646
lose -146.58234
EV $4.10

Total$EV $29.30

Folds 40%
Fold EV $33.60

Gambools 60%
win 152.44646
lose -146.58234
EV $3.52

Total$EV $37.12

Also hand on 23 mins:

board: Ac4dQs9h
{JsKdThQd}- 30.72%
{AA**,QQBB,AhQsTc4h,AhKsJcQh,AdTcJd6d}- 69.28%

He bets 38 into 48, so getting (38+48) : 38, (2.3:1) so think you can call. Even if he pots it you need 33% equity so assuming you only win $ a tiny, tiny % of the time that you hit then calling is + ev, no?

I was about to make the very same comment as shawshank (42:00); aces and kings will look you up very often in my opinion - there are a lot of busted draws and counterfeited two pairs in your range. This is bad bluffing card, and I would just have given up there.

All Chin: you should take another look at your fold equity EV calcs. Our equity when called will change depending on how much of his range he is folding (as he is presumably folding the weakest part of his range). So if he folds a lot, our pot equity will be lower (but our FE will be higher!). It won't necessarily change the overall result, but I just wanted to make sure you considered it.

Hi DJ, Kasino + PLO Buccaneers I just have a question regarding the first hand in the video.
Skip to about 3:25
We have 6 5 9 7
On the turn Dj advocated checking back on the K 6 8 8 board due to the possibility our opponent could C/R us with a carefully played set.

1.I was wondering if this is something we should probably only fear from good players or if this is more often then not the correct play vs an unknown in this specific situation?

I myself would often bet this turn not expecting to get C/R though if I am I would feel I could very comfortably fold. I would of thought we should be using our position here to use these bluff/semi-bluff plays to get our opponent to fold better heart draws, straight draws and other combo draw type hands like QQT9 2 hearts especially since we have no SD value and by betting the turn the pot is getting big and there is the threat of us also betting the river which I would of thought would make a decent opponent fold all hands not holding at the very least an 8.
(I was thinking maybe he wouldn't fold a massive combo draw but I think a hand like AKT7 2 hearts (suited to the A) is most often shoving the flop so we can probably only expect marginal combo draw hands, right?).

2.Would you advise the same thing in this situation vs an 10c/20c unknown?

3.Lastly if you were in the OOP BB opponents position and held a hand like 789T no hearts and had made it to the turn what would you advise doing if WallyWattz1, who's IP, bets the turn for around $56?

I'd be happy to hear absolutely anyones thoughts on these questions. Thanks.

Hi DJ, Kasino + PLO Buccaneers I just have a question regarding the first hand in the video.
Skip to about 3:25
We have 6 5 9 7
On the turn Dj advocated checking back on the K 6 8 8 board due to the possibility our opponent could C/R us with a carefully played set.

1.I was wondering if this is something we should probably only fear from good players or if this is more often then not the correct play vs an unknown in this specific situation?

I myself would often bet this turn not expecting to get C/R though if I am I would feel I could very comfortably fold. I would of thought we should be using our position here to use these bluff/semi-bluff plays to get our opponent to fold better heart draws, straight draws and other combo draw type hands like QQT9 2 hearts especially since we have no SD value and by betting the turn the pot is getting big and there is the threat of us also betting the river which I would of thought would make a decent opponent fold all hands not holding at the very least an 8.
(I was thinking maybe he wouldn't fold a massive combo draw but I think a hand like AKT7 2 hearts (suited to the A) is most often shoving the flop so we can probably only expect marginal combo draw hands, right?).

2.Would you advise the same thing in this situation vs an 10c/20c unknown?

3.Lastly if you were in the OOP BB opponents position and held a hand like 789T no hearts and had made it to the turn what would you advise doing if WallyWattz1, who's IP, bets the turn for around $56?

I'd be happy to hear absolutely anyones thoughts on these questions. Thanks.

Hey aaahshoveit, great questions. I'll do my best to answer your questions.

1. Your turn analysis is dead on, and I think you covered all of the main points for why betting the turn is the most profitable play, most important being that we often get better hands to fold, and we don't have any SD value anyway.

I think most bad players and unknowns will be much more likely to c/r the flop with a set in comparison to good players. Good players understand that a set on a board like this plays more like a drawing hand than a made hand, particularly OOP. It's always important to have a grasp of what your opponent is capable of, but in general, I think this is a b/f regardless of what type of opponent you're up against.

2. Yes, definitely. At the .1/.2 level, their calling ranges on the flop will be much wider, which means they'll have many more random combinations of Kxxx, hhxx, SD's, and random garbage. Although this may seem to increase the likelihood that they would show up with an 8 sometimes, it's good for us because they're putting more dead money in on the flop for us to bluff them off of later. Even very bad players will c/f this turn if their draws don't improve. The main idea that makes this bet profitable is the fact that basically only the very top of their range is capable of continuing on this turn (trips, full houses, NFD sometimes), but the rest of their range basically has to fold. Regardless of what stakes you're playing, you still don't have showdown value, and they still fold better many times so the amount of money being wagered doesn't matter in this instance.

3. Interesting question, and I don't think there's one prefect answer because it first needs to be approached by having a read on what your opponents tendencies are. If I'm the BB, I have to believe that Wally isn't c-betting light on a board like that into three other people, so you know his flop betting range is sure to be strong. I think the majority of his flop range will be something like he had in the video, pair and NFD, Aces w/NFD, KKxx, and very rarely 66xx. Against this range of likely holdings, you're either way ahead or way behind (drawing almost dead against KKxx, 23% equity against 66xx, 77% against Ahxhxx), That being said, you need to figure what the best way is to get max value out of your hand on a board like that. If I know he's aggressive, and likely to bet his air and draws on the turn, I'll c/r him for value on the turn. If he's passive, I'd probably bet 70% pot on the turn and riv for value from AAxx and NFD.


Hopefully this helps? Let me know if it does, or if you want me to clear something up for you.

Hey Kasino thanks a lot for all this.

Concerning 3. I would have thought oop we should probably C/C a turn bet not expecting our opponent to barrel the river often (just because it's tough to do) and quite fearing his potential full houses. I think it's pretty interesting you'd C/R the turn (vs an agg but competent player) and makes me wonder if I'm looking at this right.
Is this a C/R (to push out draws/hands lacking an 8) fold to a re-shove or are we looking to get it in?
I don't have particularly clear thoughts on this but my problem with getting it in comes from thinking if he's willing to get his remaining 110Big Blind stack in after our turn C/R then he must have a full and so I'd of thought at that point we'd have to fold.

Thanks for your lengthy response I'm going to re-read this stuff a few times.
(Also I'll re-write that e-mail soon but it will have nothing to do with Open limping since I've been trying to ween myself off it until I understand how to really use it, plus I hate small pots, plus the reason I play PLO is to get it all-in every other hand with enough equity to legitimately say 'ahh, small dog').
GL

Good questions. The main point I was trying to make with the original post was that against his range, we should be thinking of how to get value out of our hand. c/c is fine, but I think it's important to consider how many river cards you'll have to c/f to a bet. The reason I like c/r'ing in that spot is because the pot is already getting somewhat large, and I don't want to have to guess on the river OOP, which I feel like I'd have to do on any heart, K, or A given what we said about his flop c-betting range.

You said c/c is better because we don't expect our opponent to barrel the river very often, so why do we want to see a river at all then? Either way, we're only getting one bet out of him on the turn, but c/r gets him to fold hands that may have some equity against us. Obviously if he comes over the top of our c/r, then we're in terrible shape, but given his aforementioned range, and the small number of combos that have us drawing dead in comparison to the combos we have significant equity against, c/r'ing becomes less likely. To reiterate, I'm not a huge fan of getting fancy or putting myself in marginal situations OOP just for the sake of potentially squeezing value out one more bet. More often than not, you'll find yourself guessing and making things harder on yourself than it needs to be.

I do like your analysis and approach though, and I see what you're saying. Hopefully this helps?

Obviously if he comes over the top of our c/r, then we're in terrible shape, but given his aforementioned range, and the small number of combos that have us drawing dead in comparison to the combos we have significant equity against, c/r'ing becomes less likely. To reiterate, I'm not a huge fan of getting fancy or putting myself in marginal situations OOP just for the sake of potentially squeezing value out one more bet. More often than not, you'll find yourself guessing and making things harder on yourself than it needs to be.

I think this point of yours concerning the majority of his range and not getting fancy when oop in a tough situation so to not to level ourselves is excellent and pretty much blows everything I said out of the water.

One final small question though, you said in your first post 'If he's passive, I'd probably bet 70% pot on the turn and riv for value from AAxx and NFD.'
Just to be clear are you basically saying we can lead/donk the turn vs a passive?
I can see the benefit to this since a passive player should be very unlikely to raise us with anything worse then a big made strong hand and since passive players will call with a bigger range then they'll bet with we may as well start drawing out some value with our trips 8's ourselves. Am I thinking about this along the right lines and is this what you were implying?

Thanks again

I think this point of yours concerning the majority of his range and not getting fancy when oop in a tough situation so to not to level ourselves is excellent and pretty much blows everything I said out of the water.

One final small question though, you said in your first post 'If he's passive, I'd probably bet 70% pot on the turn and riv for value from AAxx and NFD.'
Just to be clear are you basically saying we can lead/donk the turn vs a passive?
I can see the benefit to this since a passive player should be very unlikely to raise us with anything worse then a big made strong hand and since passive players will call with a bigger range then they'll bet with we may as well start drawing out some value with our trips 8's ourselves. Am I thinking about this along the right lines and is this what you were implying?

Thanks again

Yes, that's exactly what I was getting at. Since we've already established that we're trying to go for value, checking would be bad because passive players would be much more likely to check back the turn with the majority of their range, so we'd be missing out on a lot of value by not betting. Although it's important to note that we should be very cautious if a passive player is opening pre flop, and c betting 3/4 pot into that many people... Alarm bells should definitely be ringing at that point. Hope this helps.


John