Pot Limit Omaha Poker Forums

How valuable are blockers?

Last night i had jjxx twice and both times got into trouble. I dont know if how I played them was profitable or whether I was just getting called by donks?

Both were IP and over 100BB deep.

The one I want to talk about is as follows. I have jjxx and raise on the button to 3.50. bb calls.

Flop was q94 rainbow. BB leads out $5 and i call.

Turn is K and BB leads out $9 which was roughly half pot. I decide to rep j10 with my jj blockers and how i played the flop so i raise it up to $36. he calls.

River is an Ace which did not change the nuts however BB decides to lead into me again for $40 and it was just a wierd play so I thought, didnt put him on a straight, and i shoved for $90. and got snap called by ajxx.

Is how I played it profitable? Or did I play way too aggressively?

Blockers are important, but it really depends on your opponent. They're usually overrated by most players who are looking for a spot to run a bluff, but with deep stacks and opponents who you are familiar with, they can be great.

In your spot, I'd just fold the flop - if I didn't, I'd be somewhat likely to raise it as most JTx hands I have in that spot are going to be good enough to raise. If you decide to call flop and bluffraise turn, I'd probably raise a *bit* smaller as you're trying to put a set in a tough spot with your line, and leave myself enough behind to make a decent bet on a non-pairing river.

That said, I'd almost always just fold the flop in your spot.

Rob

at low stakes I dont think they matter at all. I've tryed c/r w/ the nut flush blocker a few times and every time I get called by a ten to king high flush, (at 25plo). I've also tryed bet/bet/bet when I hold 2 blockers to the straight but I allways seem to be called by a set or a non nut straight.

I think the only time blockers really matter is when you hold akkx and are considering a 3 bet pre. theres some 6900 combinations of AAxx I belive, which we should be able to break down to (aa)*(xx), If you dont have an A in ur hand then he has 4choose3*(xx) or 6*(xx) combos of AA, but If you hold an ace in ur hand, then he has 3choose2*(xx) or 3*(xx), effectively cutting the times he has AAxx in half.

IMO I dont think blockers really come into effect untill 200plo. But other posters who play at those stakes would have a better idea then me.

You can't get into a raising war with blockers and hope that he folds for just one more bet. When he jams for 1/2 pot on the river after the turn action, your play for the hand's gone off the rails. It doesn't matter if villain's play makes no sense, or that the ace doesn't change anything. People are usually not bet/folding in this spot because they are usually not bluff-donkbetting on the river after you raise the turn.

at low stakes I dont think they matter at all. I've tryed c/r w/ the nut flush blocker a few times and every time I get called by a ten to king high flush, (at 25plo). I've also tryed bet/bet/bet when I hold 2 blockers to the straight but I allways seem to be called by a set or a non nut straight.

I think the only time blockers really matter is when you hold akkx and are considering a 3 bet pre. theres some 6900 combinations of AAxx I belive, which we should be able to break down to (aa)*(xx), If you dont have an A in ur hand then he has 4choose3*(xx) or 6*(xx) combos of AA, but If you hold an ace in ur hand, then he has 3choose2*(xx) or 3*(xx), effectively cutting the times he has AAxx in half.

IMO I dont think blockers really come into effect untill 200plo. But other posters who play at those stakes would have a better idea then me.

6768 combos of unique non-AAAA, non AAA* Aces, I believe. If you hold an Ace in your hand it will cut down the # of AAxx combos by roughly 1/2:

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/hand_ranges/?range=aa**&game=omaha&dead=&range_type=propokertools

Rob

You can't get into a raising war with blockers and hope that he folds for just one more bet. When he jams for 1/2 pot on the river after the turn action, your play for the hand's gone off the rails. It doesn't matter if villain's play makes no sense, or that the ace doesn't change anything. People are usually not bet/folding in this spot because they are usually not bluff-donkbetting on the river after you raise the turn.

i think u make a great point about them not bet/folding the river. I completely agree and in hindsight should have realised that and folded accordingly. Thanks squirrel

I'd just fold the flop. You can't call with only blockers to run a bluff unless you have some more value to your hand. If you had KJJ4, it's now worth a call because you have a gutshot, and 2 more outs to trips.

As for their value, I will usually bluff when I have blockers in spots where I don't have much of a bluffing range otherwise. Might as well randomize your bluffing in those spots when your opponent can't/is less likely to have the nuts.

6768 combos of unique non-AAAA, non AAA* Aces, I believe.

FWIW You can do this calc with filters that exclude quads and trips:
http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/hand_ranges/?game=omaha&dead=&range=aa%2A%2A%20%7B%21qu%20%26%20%21%20tr%7D&range_type=propokertools&page=1

or by explicitly excluding AAA and AAAA hands

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/hand_ranges/?game=omaha&dead=&range=aa%2A%2A%20%21%20%28AAAA%7CAAA%2A%29&range_type=propokertools&page=1

If you hold an Ace in your hand it will cut down the # of AAxx combos by roughly 1/2:

If you hold say the Ah in your hand then you can figure out how many other combos of AA** like this (AA** ! Ah):

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/hand_ranges/?game=omaha&dead=&range=aa%2A%2A%20%21%20Ah%20&range_type=propokertools&page=1