Full Ring No Limit Poker Forums

This hand happened last night. Basically I'm not sure that I got maximum value, and the action was so very strange.

I have about 475, have everyone covered.

Villain 1 and 2 seem to know each other, been talking. Neither has been at the table long, both had around 100bb. Both were looser and involved in a ton of pots.

Villain 3 maybe 35bb, involved in a lot of pots but seems like your typical casino rec.

1/3-8 handed around 1am.

Hero in HJ with 10/10.
Villain 1 in BB
Villain 2 in EP raises to 7
Villain 3 in MP calls 7
Hero calls.
Villain 1 calls.

Flop
A/10/4 rainbow.

Here's where the action gets weird, but I'm basically chomping at the bit and trying to keep these guys in.
Pot : around $30
V1 bets out 7.
V2 raises to 17.
V3 calls
Hero calls.
V1 calls.

I figure flatting here is going to be the most profitable play. I figure if I raise I might push some people out of the pot, and they're building a nice sized pot for me. I likely would have cbet about 20 into 30 anyway so I was content with the sizing on villain's raise.

Turn 8
Pot aprox $100.

V1 bets 50
V2 and V3 fold

Hero raise 200.

Now here's my question...
Am I better off just flatting here, or putting in a raise?

There's really no river cards that I think are going to be bad, with the exception of an A (my read on the villain here I'm leaning more towards aces up). I'd seen the guy play a 1 pair ace hand before, but it wasn't that aggressively.

Is my raise sizing too big? He had a little over 200 left behind. Would I have been better off raising to 100-125ish leaving him around 100 left behind for a river bet?

Calling is good, raising is good. Just don't fold. lol

Really I think this is player dependent. If he is very passive, likely to call any bet with an Ace or 2 pair, then you need to raise pretty much every time. If he is aggressive and likely to value bet the river but fold to a raise, then you just flat here and see how much value you can get on the river.

The main problem is, if he is in any way a decent player, it's so difficult to get much out of him, as it looks exactly like you have a set... Any raise should send alarm bells ringing in his head, whether it be a min raise or a shove. So yeah really I think it all depends on the player, and your own image and history with him/her.

[quote]Calling is good, raising is good. Just don't fold. lol[quote]

Word lol
Personally i'd probably flat and hope he prices himself in on the river if he wants to fire again, but its pretty much 50/50 and I think i suck at getting max value so I could be wrong lol. You played it fine...mabye a slightly smaller raise on turn to leave him a river bet like you said but really if he has air he's not calling anyway and if he has aces up he's probably getting it in so you played it good off your read...if he has less than two pair thats where I like flatting and letting him hopefully price himself in on the river.

I didn't really have much history with the guy.

I figured to most casino rec players, $50 is a pretty big bet. So I thought if he bet that much he'd probably come along for a raise.

He called, then bet/called into 3 other players. 4/4 is possible but unlikely. When he bet into 3 other players on the turn I thought it was a little more likely. Here I think he has A/4, or A/8. He seems to take a pretty strong line 2 streets which is why I thought aces up rather then some 1 pair ace hand.

If you think he's strong, then raising is generally much better. If he has A8 or A4 it's going to be nearly impossible for him to fold. But if another Ten comes on the turn suddenly he has junk and is never going to pay you off. So if your read is that he's strong, just raise now and get him to put it in now.

If he has something like AJ and he's a good player, he should never really be putting any more money in now anyway.

I think against an unknown I would raise the turn like you did but might make it a little smaller. Overall this player must think he has a strong hand to bet the turn after getting raised on the flop and a cold call by you.
Against a player that you know will bet the river, than I can see an argument for a call followed up with an all in raise on the river.

there is 200 in the pot if you just flat, and he has 125 left. If he bets, almost anything he will be priced in, unless he has a really weak hand which would not have called your turn raise anyway.

If you raise the turn, especially putting him All In, it is a reminder that he still has 125 left to lose.

with stack sizes so awkward, I would probably wait till the river. If he checks, he might level himself into thinking you are stealing if you bet $125 into this large pot.

If he bets, even as small as $30, he will be looking at calling another 95 to win 355, a really attractive price. I would not worry about scare cards here. Board is so dry on flop, and with turn action, no draws are involved probably.

which

there is 200 in the pot if you just flat, and he has 125 left. If he bets, almost anything he will be priced in, unless he has a really weak hand which would not have called your turn raise anyway.

If you raise the turn, especially putting him All In, it is a reminder that he still has 125 left to lose.

with stack sizes so awkward, I would probably wait till the river. If he checks, he might level himself into thinking you are stealing if you bet $125 into this large pot.

If he bets, even as small as $30, he will be looking at calling another 95 to win 355, a really attractive price. I would not worry about scare cards here. Board is so dry on flop, and with turn action, no draws are involved probably.

which

He actually probably had about 225 left behind. He had close to a full buy in to start, which is why I was considering just flatting the turn.
But I didn't have much info on this guy, I wasn't sure if he'd bet out on the river. I guess when considering the prior action he's not going to check fold the river ever.

sorry med, was thinking of 1/2 and just missed the higher buy in.

since he is deeper, and a check by him followed by anything close to a pot size bet will seem huge, River raises are also considered very strong (as are turn raises) I would raise the turn. But smaller like yakes said.

If you make it 120 there would be 340 total if he calls, which would make it an easy sized bet into the pot for the rest.

which

sorry med, was thinking of 1/2 and just missed the higher buy in.

since he is deeper, and a check by him followed by anything close to a pot size bet will seem huge, River raises are also considered very strong (as are turn raises) I would raise the turn. But smaller like yakes said.

If you make it 120 there would be 340 total if he calls, which would make it an easy sized bet into the pot for the rest.

which

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking myself. I was thinking a virtual minraise to say 100-125 would probably would have been low enough to keep him in, and leave for a nice sized river bet.

I think you're pretty much screwed anyway. Your cold call of the donk/raise on the flop is pretty strong. So any raise on the turn is going to look that much stronger. I suppose you could live click it back to get him to spazz somehow and if called you still have less than a pot sized bet on the river.