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People playing weak tight is almost always a result of having a lack of sound strategy/theory knowledge.

I sometimes read this forums and I'm amazed at the level of weak-tightness by micro and SS players. It's like someone posts a HH where he raises JJ in the CO, BTN calls, flop comes 753s and the cbet gets raised. The thread insta gets like 5 responses saying he should fold because some crap about making mistakes on turn/river or something lol. So yeah, I think weak-tightness is the main reason why people get stuck at 25nl/50nl, and I think they do it because mainly because of not wanting to make difficult decisions and from taking the concept of "not paying off" way too far.

I sometimes read this forums and I'm amazed at the level of weak-tightness by micro and SS players. It's like someone posts a HH where he raises JJ in the CO, BTN calls, flop comes 753s and the cbet gets raised. The thread insta gets like 5 responses saying he should fold because some crap about making mistakes on turn/river or something lol. So yeah, I think weak-tightness is the main reason why people get stuck at 25nl/50nl, and I think they do it because mainly because of not wanting to make difficult decisions and from taking the concept of "not paying off" way too far.

If a thread gets 5 different people saying it`s a fold and giving arguments why is that, chances are that it is a fold and far from being tight - weak. So I totally disagree with what you are saying.

I sometimes read this forums and I'm amazed at the level of weak-tightness by micro and SS players. It's like someone posts a HH where he raises JJ in the CO, BTN calls, flop comes 753s and the cbet gets raised. The thread insta gets like 5 responses saying he should fold because some crap about making mistakes on turn/river or something lol. So yeah, I think weak-tightness is the main reason why people get stuck at 25nl/50nl, and I think they do it because mainly because of not wanting to make difficult decisions and from taking the concept of "not paying off" way too far.

Can you link to an example of such a thread?

I think I didn't explain myself correctly. The point I was trying to convey is that I think the theory that making incorrect folds is OK in order to avoid marginal situations later on is just the favorite way of weak-tight regs of bleeding money, which if you re-read my post should be made clear is what I was trying to say. The thing is that 5 people giving the same wrong arguments doesn't amount to much.

Obviously, there are spots when you have to fold the overpair to a raise on the flop (as was made abundantly clear to me when I played SNGs), but it's way less often than most 25nl TAGs think, because people raise gutshots, flush draws, air and worse for value (like marginal overpairs, because not everybody watches DC vids) all the time and you don't need that much equity to continue getting say 3:1.

I think I didn't explain myself correctly. The point I was trying to convey is that I think the theory that making incorrect folds is OK in order to avoid marginal situations later on is just the favorite way of weak-tight regs of bleeding money, which if you re-read my post should be made clear is what I was trying to say. The thing is that 5 people giving the same wrong arguments doesn't amount to much.

Obviously, there are spots when you have to fold the overpair to a raise on the flop (as was made abundantly clear to me when I played SNGs), but it's way less often than most 25nl TAGs think, because people raise gutshots, flush draws, air and worse for value (like marginal overpairs, because not everybody watches DC vids) all the time and you don't need that much equity to continue getting say 3:1.

And again I disagree with you. Even thought you are getting 3 to 1 on the flop doesn`t mean it`s a call as you have to weight into decision other many medium to little other variables. And I would like to see a thread where 5 different people say the same thing and gives wrong arguments so post a link.

people raise gutshots, flush draws, air and worse for value (like marginal overpairs, because not everybody watches DC vids) all the time and you don't need that much equity to continue getting say 3:1.

What do you mean by the bolded words?

A buddy of mine will just open ship his stack into small pots in tournaments at our home game all the time, in an effort to protect his hand or some sort of mental lapse. Inevitably, he does it against a hand that crushes him and he loses. We call it the "Jeff blow-up." It's interesting to me that he does this even though he has been laughed at for it many times. Similarly, I get that many people play this game strictly for fun, but I just don't understand, with the wealth of information out there, how people can continue to play horribly and have no desire to improve. I realize some of them may lack the minimum level of intelligence required, but for those who are in fact smart enough to improve, it boggles my mind that they choose to remain, for the most part, weak tight.

If you're getting 3:1 odds and you're less than a 3:1 underdog against his range, you call. If not, you fold. On later streets you may reevaluate but there's no way around the fact that folding is incorrect if you have enough equity, no matter how aggro he is IP, how under rolled you are or how bad you will feel if you lose at showdown. If you call, the turn is an A and he bets, then you again decide if you have enough equity to continue. If yes, you call, if no, you fold. You don't fold the flop because you don't feel like deciding on the A.

^^ thats wrong unless you are getting 3:1 against his range to see one more card/street. if not then folding may be better unless you have sufficient implied odds.

If you're getting 3:1 odds and you're less than a 3:1 underdog against his range, you call. If not, you fold.

No, having a pot equity vs his range that is better than the pot odds does not necessarily mean a call on the flop is correct. The turn and river action make things a little more complicated than that.

I'm talking about made hands, not draws.

Anybody care to share an example where it is correct to fold a made hand having enough equity against a range of made hands and draws? (Assuming the call does not leave you pot commited)

What do you mean by the bolded words?

What I meant, in the context of my JJ example, is that on a board of 753s the overpair has enough equity against almost any conceivable range to call a half pot raise.

I'm talking about made hands, not draws.

It applies to both made hands and draws.

I'm talking about made hands, not draws.

Anybody care to share an example where it is correct to fold a made hand having enough equity against a range of made hands and draws? (Assuming the call does not leave you pot commited)

Let's simplify a little, and say that neither you nor villain has any possibility of sucking out. You will always win vs the hands which you are ahead of on the flop and loose vs the hands which you are behind on the flop.

In such a situation, let's say villain bets pot on the flop giving you 2:1. Let's say you have a hand which puts you ahead on the flop 40% of the time. Let's also say villain always bets pot with the same range on turn and river.

According to you, we should call the flop, the turn and the river because our pot equity will be better than our pot odds on every street. Are you beginning to see the issue with your theory?

What I meant, in the context of my JJ example, is that on a board of 753s the overpair has enough equity against almost any conceivable range to call a half pot raise.

Ok let`s assume villain is decent and his range for raising you on this flop has both made hands and draws let say like this:

Board: 7c 5c 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.660% 50.29% 01.37% 29372 802.50 { QQ-99, 77-55, 33, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac5c, Ac4c, Ac3c, Ac2c, KcQc, 98s, 87s, 75s+, 64s }
Hand 1: 48.340% 46.97% 01.37% 27433 802.50 { JdJh }

You have the odds now, but villain is decent and will use his positional advantage vs you making you fold incorrectly later using scare cards (any Q, K, A, any , 8, 6, 4) later in the hand or call incorrectly, take free cards and those mistakes will be more costly later in the hand then on the flop.