which
1116 posts
Joined 09/2009
I've been told that I may be giving away too much info with my larger bets when I indeed have something strong.
In the Winstar 1/2 NLHE games, it seems rare for anyone to bet $50 or more without being All In. Part of this is that many do not have stacks big enough to bet that much. Another seems to be the culture. I see lots of folks not really keeping track of pot size (true in lots of live games) but it seems ridiculous at 1/2 here.
May be the fact that 2/5 is not the largest game, and it may take the regs who are trying to be professionals, leaving us beginners to ourselves.
I am sure we have all had folks mumble to our turn bets "why so much?" when you have only put in 1/2 of the pot at best.
so, if y'all could share some of your live experience that would be great. Meanwhile.... my hand 
I am in the BB with K
4
There are 4 limps to SB who completes, I check my option....
Flop 9
8
6
stack sizes SB young kid who has a clue, but willing to gamble $500
BB zero (me) has $350
UTG solid reg who will chase $150
CO old guy TAG willing to aggro with decent equity (draw/made hnd) $150
I am thinking of Bart H "fast play big hands"
6 players $10 pot.
SB x, Hero bets $10, UTG calls, LAP MP calls, CO raises $35, SB calls
Hero 3b $100 more....
1. In this situation, does anyone flat behind?
2. Anyone 3b more, or perhaps less? Or is this about right?
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Posted about 1 year ago
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Sinthoras1
297 posts
Joined 05/2011
Sorry but your reads just doesn't make sense to me. First you say the 2/5 games take away all the regs and than you are in a limped pot with 2 regs and a guy who has a clue? Also why are the 2 regs not full stacked on a fishy table? Did both of them lost pots recently?
Posted about 1 year ago
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prestonp
322 posts
Joined 11/2009
What are people going to stack off here with?
I think sensible players will not stack off with set or even straights in a nothing pot with a flush OTB. So you're really left with other flushes. You have K4 and the flop is 689.
So there are 5 spades accounted for. That leaves 8 left or 28 combos of flushes. Of those, 7 are Ace high flushes. Of the remaining 21 combos, most people aren't playing the one's like T2. So you're probably looking at QT, QJ, and 45.
So you're looking at more playable flushes that beat you when it comes to stacking off. So you should instead try to price your bets such that straights, sets and the lone Ace of
Spades are paying a price to hang with you. So I'd make your raises reasonable.
Posted about 1 year ago
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which
1116 posts
Joined 09/2009
Sorry but your reads just doesn't make sense to me. First you say the 2/5 games take away all the regs and than you are in a limped pot with 2 regs and a guy who has a clue? Also why are the 2 regs not full stacked on a fishy table? Did both of them lost pots recently?
well, should have phrased it differently, but what I meant to say, "The regs at 1/2 all suck pretty much, including me" If they were any good,they are good enough to beat the 2/5 game for much more hourly.
So the regs at 1/2 are not great. The regs here, just play regularly.
The guy with the 'clue' comes only twice a month or so, and although he can talk poker strategy, it does not really get seen by his actions (he still calls short stacks raisers w/medium and low pairs, or suited connectors pre flop)
The regs do not have full stacks because they 'just don't'. I do not know why anyone would ever buy in for $140, then go broke, slowly, then rebuy, again and then again. By the term "solid reg" I meant more someone who seemed to have a decent grasp of hand strength, pot size, etc, but only at a beginner level. NONE OF US ARE GOOD
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Posted about 1 year ago
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which
1116 posts
Joined 09/2009
What are people going to stack off here with?
I think sensible players will not stack off with set or even straights in a nothing pot with a flush OTB. So you're really left with other flushes. You have K4 and the flop is 689.
So there are 5 spades accounted for. That leaves 8 left or 28 combos of flushes. Of those, 7 are Ace high flushes. Of the remaining 21 combos, most people aren't playing the one's like T2. So you're probably looking at QT, QJ, and 45.
So you're looking at more playable flushes that beat you when it comes to stacking off. So you should instead try to price your bets such that straights, sets and the lone Ace of
Spades are paying a price to hang with you. So I'd make your raises reasonable.
well I agree that you want folks to chase, but there were so many action killer and perhaps hand killer cards to come, I was hestitant to not get it in on flop. 8 spades, and 9 paired cards would probably do it for most of these guys to stop their willingness to put money in after the flop action. So, rather than sweat 17 cards on the turn, I thought a raise was correct. I figured about 3 times the raise would be a 1/2 pot size raise accounting for my $35 part of the $100 being just a call. This actually seemed pretty small (online it might even raise eyebrows for being small?) but again, anything more than $50 live at this table would be very very unusual (unless All In)
As for what folks would stack off with? Have no idea. I can tell you that players not in pot stacked off with straights on 3rd flush rivers, 4 card straights river cards with 2 pair, and even a lone KK vs a monotone 678 flop.
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Posted about 1 year ago
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meowjr
535 posts
Joined 02/2011
I've been told that I may be giving away too much info with my larger bets when I indeed have something strong.
Who told you this? I've been told this by other players who were frustrated by me betting big (just standardish 2/3 pot bet) and forcing them to fold their draws.....
I think your bet sizing is fine here, but maybe $90ish more would look less scary to people as it's not a "white chip".
The thing that jumps out about this hand is the SB flatting the CO's raise after you bet. I'm not too worried about the old nit CO, but the SB calling a raise with you left to act looks pretty strong.......
You said he's a young kid who has a clue, but also that he's not very good.....
What kind of range do give the SB given this action?
Posted about 1 year ago
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prestonp
322 posts
Joined 11/2009
As for what folks would stack off with? Have no idea. I can tell you that players not in pot stacked off with straights on 3rd flush rivers, 4 card straights river cards with 2 pair, and even a lone KK vs a monotone 678 flop.
which
They might stack off with a SPR of 6-8, but you say this 15-35 depending on whose stack you have. You'd have to be pretty damn thick headed to get it all in with an SPR of 35 with a straight on this board. If they're that stupid, there are plenty of more profitable spots to take their money.
Posted about 1 year ago
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which
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Meow--
No white chips at table, just red and a few ones for antes. I agree that there seem to be threshholds psychologically, and both $50 and $100 have them.
I thought my bet was already a bit small considering that the kid and I both still hand hundreds behind.
I agree that the flat was scarier than the small raise by the old guy. The kid later flatted a MP open with 2 callers bhind in the SB with KK. He flopped K77 and slowplayed it to the river where he check raised All In and got paid by a flush and trip 7's. That's what I mean about 'had a clue' but still not great. I mean he flatted kings with others in, then checkraises the river, and gets paid. Very unexpected hand, so I give him credit, but risky way to play it, not my style for sure.
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Posted about 1 year ago
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They might stack off with a SPR of 6-8, but you say this 15-35 depending on whose stack you have. You'd have to be pretty damn thick headed to get it all in with an SPR of 35 with a straight on this board. If they're that stupid, there are plenty of more profitable spots to take their money.
Pre--
I was not involved in these hands. And yes, I think the stacking off was bad on a monotone straight board with only KK. Guy wound up having a straight -- the low end 
I think the thing I am trying to find is a balance between what a table expects as normal, and will not react differently to, and my own ideas of how I want to play a hand. I find that until I started raising more pre flop, most players at the tables I am at would not put in $15 pre flop. I got folded around a few times, but then, folks started calling. Even with stacks of $100 or less
So I kept betting bigger than they were used to but trying different amounts. Soon I preferred betting just $10 and getting 5 callers.
It may be these raises are just not in their comfort level yet, but they will get used to it.
This particular hand, the UTG +1 folded, showing the dealer a flopped straight. MP insta folds. The old man folded saying afterwards that he had a small flush but knew it was not good.
But the kid called 
$275 pot 2 players
Turn is 2
SB checks, I go All In $238 and kid instantly folds -- says "that was an expensive card to see" and then explains he had 7
and was chasing straight flush draw. ??????
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Posted about 1 year ago
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prestonp
322 posts
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If they had a straight, a small flush, and a draw to a 2 out straight flush, then they collectively would have had 2 outs. If you could have raised smaller to keep them all in the pot, you would have made more money.
Posted about 1 year ago
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