Full Ring No Limit Poker Forums

Hello

I'm new to the forum and got a hand where I do not know if my decision on my reads are correct.

My readings on player in this spot are:
MP2 is a good reg, which has a 4B range 3.6% (5k hands) in this spot probably more depending on this size, I would say that it's probably a bluff, and i have big FE against him.

BB is a nit with stats vpip:17% pfr:8% 3B1.4% (800hands) and probably calling with pocket pairs especially because my and him stack is 200BB deep so I think I have a huge FE against him as well. I expect a 4B with KK+ in this spot on his part.

Given the large FE, equty against flip hand and a lof of dead money seems to be AI a good play but now I am interested in your opinion. If fold is better in this spot particularly in relation to BB stack (200BB deep)?


Cassava Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1727728
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: $70.06
MP1: $28.77
MP2: $51.70
CO: $61.38
Hero (BTN): $114.51
SB: $62.73
BB: $97.25
UTG: $54.12
UTG+1: $50.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with T T
4 folds, MP2 raises to $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4.50, 1 fold, BB calls $4, MP2 raises to $13.50, Hero raises to $114.51, BB calls $92.75 all in, 1 fold

Flop: ($208.25) 6 5 Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($208.25) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($208.25) A (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $208.25
Hero shows T T
BB shows K K
BB wins $204.25
(Rake: $4.00)

Why are you 3 betting with TT in the 1st place? For value or as a bluff?
Then we could go more in depth with what happened after...

Why are you 3 betting with TT in the 1st place? For value or as a bluff?
Then we could go more in depth with what happened after...

For value against MP2. I probably against his range (QQ+ AK) got 35% equty and the small 4B I think I have more than 15% Fe. For BB did not expect to be able to play KK + so slow against two oponents and my and him deep stack.

For value against MP2. I probably against his range (QQ+ AK) got 35% equty and the small 4B I think I have more than 15% Fe. For BB did not expect to be able to play KK + so slow against two oponents and my and him deep stack.

I don't think you can 3 bet for value against most of the regs opening range with TT in this spot (unless he is very very looooooooooooooseeeeeeeeeeeee). How much equity do you have vs his calling range? That is the important question. Focus on that for now, we will discuss the 4 bet thing after!

By definition, value betting = betting with a hand that you will be called by worse at least 50% of the time. So vilain needs to have a wide opening range and call almost any 3 bet to make this a value bet here. What is his preflop opening range from MP? And what is his fold vs 3 bet?

I really think that TT should be part of your flatting range here because you want to keep his worse hands in the mix. I don't see any reason to 3 bet here, unless there is some important info that I miss at this moment.

Why are you 3 betting with TT in the 1st place? For value or as a bluff?
Then we could go more in depth with what happened after...

This was my initial thought as well. I don't play much FR, but I would rarely 3b an EP open in 6max with TT against a reg, unless I have been really attacking him aggressively or he will call a lot OOP. I think this hand plays better in your flatting range IP for the most part.

I don't think you can 3 bet for value against most of the regs opening range with TT in this spot (unless he is very very looooooooooooooseeeeeeeeeeeee). How much equity do you have vs his calling range? That is the important question. Focus on that for now, we will discuss the 4 bet thing after!

By definition, value betting = betting with a hand that you will be called by worse at least 50% of the time. So vilain needs to have a wide opening range and call almost any 3 bet to make this a value bet here. What is his preflop opening range from MP? And what is his fold vs 3 bet?

I really think that TT should be part of your flatting range here because you want to keep his worse hands in the mix. I don't see any reason to 3 bet here, unless there is some important info that I miss at this moment.

According to his game in MP2 20%PFR and 70% F3B i have probably 55% equty against his caling 3B range. I don think hi ever slowplay QQ+, AK and only call 3B mybe AK somtimes, but this dont change my equty.

But perhaps I really should just call and play poker from there.

In particular, I now realized that I was disturbed by his overall F3B 50% and by this i think my TT play very god in 3B pots, but today I have set this F3B stats by position and see big difreent.
What do you think if some player opens 20% hand and folds 50% to 3B is better play 3B or just flat?

I am noticing a reoccurring theme theme develop. Its when a player in the blinds flat call a raised and re raised pot (especially if the first raiser was from early position). Seems like they are only doing this with monsters hoping exactly what did happen happens. Oh and the BB thinks one of you guys is a fish. I have read some HHs before where players are explaining why they didn't want to 4bet AA, KK, because they want to keep the fish in the pot.

I am noticing a reoccurring theme theme develop. Its when a player in the blinds flat call a raised and re raised pot (especially if the first raiser was from early position). Seems like they are only doing this with monsters hoping exactly what did happen happens. Oh and the BB thinks one of you guys is a fish. I have read some HHs before where players are explaining why they didn't want to 4bet AA, KK, because they want to keep the fish in the pot.

Given the i and BB 200BB deepit is highly likely that calling me all of pockets par not only nuts KK+ is probaly more likley the 4B this two hands, becuse is not a good play overall just flat this hand and hope a miracle like now hapen. Play KK in deep stack against two oponents OOP is not god idea, what if MP2 only call. Then his KK never god if one of us stack off on flop or turn. And MP2 is a seat ner the CO not EP.
Why do you think he would think that someone of us are fish?

Given the i and BB 200BB deepit is highly likely that calling me all of pockets par not only nuts KK+ is probaly more likley the 4B this two hands, becuse is not a good play overall just flat this hand and hope a miracle like now hapen. Play KK in deep stack against two oponents OOP is not god idea, what if MP2 only call. Then his KK never god if one of us stack off on flop or turn. And MP2 is a seat ner the CO not EP.
Why do you think he would think that someone of us are fish?

Maybe this is just because he think that nobody will call him with worse when he cold 4 bet from the blinds vs MP open and 3 bet.... because it looks so strong.... and he doubt that the 2 players involved in the hand will stack off with AK / QQ in that spot.

According to his game in MP2 20%PFR and 70% F3B i have probably 55% equty against his caling 3B range. I don think hi ever slowplay QQ+, AK and only call 3B mybe AK somtimes, but this dont change my equty.

But perhaps I really should just call and play poker from there.

In particular, I now realized that I was disturbed by his overall F3B 50% and by this i think my TT play very god in 3B pots, but today I have set this F3B stats by position and see big difreent.
What do you think if some player opens 20% hand and folds 50% to 3B is better play 3B or just flat?

Look also at his fold vs 3 bet by position. I mean, is he folding a lot vs resteal from the blinds or not? It could give a good indication of his tendencies. If his fold vs resteal is like almost never, then he probably fold a lot more than 50% of the time vs 3 bet when oop. And also, you represent a very strong hand when you 3 bet in that spot usually....

Vs a standard reg, 3 betting TT in this spot is pretty unusual. Here he seems to be very loose... still not sure on his calling range but maybe yes you can value bet him with TT pre if you have a good idea of his calling range...

For the 4 bet, I agree that you still have some equity (at least 18%) and maybe some FE, but at the same time, a nit flatted a 3 bet oop, it looks super strong to me.... Don't you think that MP2 will have a stronger range if you take this in consideration, so it means he has less bluffs in his range and you probably don't have much FE? Same for the nit, when he flats here, it looks scary to me.

Personnaly, 200bb deep, it looks like a fold vs the 4 bet, as you don't won't be able to flat and play this hand and show a profit post flop vs such strong ranges. The fact that one vilain is deep change the whole EV calculation.... I am really not sure that shoving TT here is EV+. With a lot of dead money, some FE and 100bb deep stacks, it could be closer, but here I think that it will cost you money in the long run. I didnt do my own EV calc on this exact spot tough. It would be interesting to go more in depth...

I like 3 betting TTs on the button. If you get in a situation where he's only calling with better, than you can introduce a 3 bet bluffing range for balance. All that being said, it's a fold once it get's 4 bet.

I like 3 betting TTs on the button. If you get in a situation where he's only calling with better, than you can introduce a 3 bet bluffing range for balance. All that being said, it's a fold once it get's 4 bet.

If he is only calling with better, you flat TT pre, and you 3 bet him a ton as a bluff with any AXx and even KXs if he really fold a lot.

Depends on how he reacts. If he responds to our 3 betting by 4betting or folding, then I like your strategy. If he instead just calls a wider range, then I like 3betting TTs.

But now we're off on the topic of how to construct and balance a 3betting range versus how our opponent responds.

If his 3 bet % range is 1.5 % over 800 hands it is possible he only 3/4/5 bets AA, some players prefer to call KK so they can fold if an A hits, or so they can avoid a AA vs KK all in confrontation when they have KK.
Remember, this guy is a nit, he is probably just scared to stack off for 200 bb w/ KK that's probably why he didnt 4 bet, not necessarily so much so he could trap. He probably thought something like "Oh shit, well I guess I have to..." and reluctantly hit call

My readings on player in this spot are:
MP2 is a good reg, which has a 4B range 3.6% (5k hands) in this spot probably more depending on this size, I would say that it's probably a bluff, and i have big FE against him.

This is terrible logic. You want him to bet again with his bluffs on the flop, not fold them. So you are turning your hand into a bluff, and there is maybe 1 better hand(JJ) that folds, and everything better just wins more from your raise, and when he bluffs, you just let him fold the worst hand rather than put more money in? The main reasons you should 3 bet is if the opener will call 3 bets way too much or stack off way too light. Otherwise, just call.