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Set-up: 5=10 Holdem live a Daytona Beach Kennel Club. Stack sizes: Hero 2500, HJ 4000, BB 2000.Hero in SB with QQ, Folded to HJ who raises to 30, button calls. Hero raises to 125, BB Calls, Button folds, 3 to flop. Flop is Jc 10d 4c. Hero and BB check, HJ bets 265, Hero calls and BB folds. Turn is 7H. Hero checks and muffs to 650 bet. Reason for folding was didn't want to risk my stack with only a pair and out of position. I think my first raise in SB weak because I should not play a big hand out of position. Comments appreciated,

I think you have to bet out or x raise this flop.

I think you have to bet out or x raise this flop.

Agreed, I bet on the flop after 3betting preflop. Continuing to bet on most turns as well if villian calls flop. Also, not sure if you have any reads on the villians range in the HJ? Would think he has a pretty wide range here which can include a lot of FD and SD and a lot of Jx hands. Folding is pretty tight here imo.

First , I think you should have raised more pre flop.

when the HJ puts in 30, Btn 30, you 30 and there is already 10 in the BB there is already $100 in the pot, you are only bumping it $25 more than the pot? You will be OOP, and you really want the BTN to fold, and perhaps to put the HJ in a tough spot Pre. This is a classic squeeze spot online, and y'all are so deep and playing so big live, I think you will get called by both unless you make it pretty big pre. $155-165 seems good to me.

On the flop, you checked, so did everyone else, so he now has a free license to steal this. He is betting slightly larger than half pot, not a strong bet considering the board texture.

I plan on betting this as PFR to make your hand look really strong. After all, you are betting into 2 opponents, and it would be cheaper donking than perhaps x/c or x/r F, then barreling T and/or River?

But, we just x/c and he bets $650 into a $1030 pot, still not a huge size,but enough to set up a 2/3 pot size shove on River.

As played, by the time he bets turn, its probably a fold. Problem is, what do you do with a brick river?

which

I agree that you should bet bigger pre.
I usually 3 bet to 3 X vs one raiser, when IP and closer to 4 X OOP. As already mentionned there is already one caller. So to price your opponents, you should make it 4x + 1x / caller, so here I would make it 5x. So raising to 150 would be totally fine. Plus, you have to consider the fact that you are deep. A good player that is aware of that can call wider because he can set mine a lot more with stacks that deep (200bb+). When playing deep, SCs and small PP goes up in value, and big pairs goes down in value. This is another argument for betting big pre when still ahead and price him for calling wide. Also, the bigger you bet preflop, the easier your decisions will be post flop and the less the position becomes an advantage.

I think that you should bet the flop for value, betting around half pot should be totally fine. By checking OTF, you are putting yourself in a tough position on later streets. You don't know if vilain's is having a set, a FD or any other weak hand. If you bet the flop and he raises in this spot, you can have a better idea of his range and you will probably have to fold. If vilain holds a set (the only holding that you should fear OTF) he will probably raise it OTF, that deep with so many draws.

You're 250 BB deep here. You are right that playing OOP is challenging that deep. As such, there are some lines you can take:
1. Most Passive: You call the pre flop bet, see if you flop a set, and fold otherwise.
2. Passive: You call the pre flop bet, and if you flop an overpair, check call the flop and turn, but not the river on the logic that someone who bets all three streets can beat an overpair.
3. Calling Station: You call pre flop. If you flop an overpair, call all streets.
4. Check Raise the Turn: You can pre flop, call on flop, and, if you have an overpair, check raise the turn to try to end the hand. If he calls you turn check raise, you can check fold the river on the logic that he would check behind all hands you're beating and bet all hands you're losing to.
5. Squeeze: Raise big pre flop. Bet big on flop. If he's still seeing the turn with you and you don't have a set, you can safely check fold on the safe logic as #4 above.

Note that these situations aren't a problem if you're 80-100 BB deep, because you run out of your stack before you start to enter the problem of, "He must be ahead of me if he's sticking around."

The specific line you take depends in your comfort in the game and your read on your opponent. Personally, I think your play indicates a certain discomfort with the amount of money you're risking which caused you to play the hand poorly. Your pre flop raise was, as everyone had pointed out, far too small. It tipped your opponents off to the fact that you had a big hand, but offered them good implied odds to take the flop with you in position.

so when we are deep and oop we setmine with our premium pairs?

It seems silly to setmine with QQ, but that's what Doyle Brunson advocated in Super System. I'm not saying that it's the best way to proceed, but it's an option. The advantages it has is that it minimizes the dead money in the pot that an aggressive opponent can take away from us. The disadvantage is that you could conceivably get some value from unimproved QQ, but it's doubtful you can get all 250BB in the pot and expect your hand to be good.

We are missing A TON OF VALUE when set mining with QQ.... (set mining = check folding the flop when we miss). Value betting is one of the most important things we have to do to win money at poker. In this hand, Hero missed a lot of value by betting too small preflop and by not betting flop.

In today's game, it don't even make sense.... at least, in online games and for many reasons to set mine with QQ. I could understand, 4 way, oop that hands like 66-99 are hands that we can't go to the war with unimproved.

Even in live games, so many players have a high VPIP (30%+) and don't like to fold. To me, it sounds like QQ is a great hand to value bet! We should even be happy to get it in (in a 100bb situation) oop in a lot of spots vs such wide ranges. Here, what makes the problem more complex is that the flop is 4 way, we are oop and deep, so we have a lot of room for big and costly mistakes.

Value betting is the best way to exploit players that don't fold enough. I don't have any indication on vilain's range, but I rarely see live player have a 15/12 preflop range with a 70% fold to 3 bet....

It seems silly to setmine with QQ, but that's what Doyle Brunson advocated in Super System. I'm not saying that it's the best way to proceed, but it's an option. The advantages it has is that it minimizes the dead money in the pot that an aggressive opponent can take away from us. The disadvantage is that you could conceivably get some value from unimproved QQ, but it's doubtful you can get all 250BB in the pot and expect your hand to be good.

So if you set mine QQ, what is your plan with AQ in the exact same spot?

I set out 5 possible lines and everyone is ascribing the most passive one to me as my recommendation. Not sure why.

I set out 5 possible lines and everyone is ascribing the most passive one to me as my recommendation. Not sure why.

Not sure as well, see my comment!

If we're so nitty that we're set mining with QQ, I think AQ is a fold pre flop.

I agree that 3bet preflop should be larger.
In my opinion, by check/calling the flop we have no idea where we stand. This flop hits his range a lot, but does that mean sets or draws?
After 3 betting, I would certainly bet the flop and turn but consider folding to any aggression>

What type of player is the villain?
Flatting pre and check/raising the flop or check/calling 3 streets could be viable alternative lines if the villain is aggro

Thanks for the great comments! In the future I will try the suggested lines and report back. Both the bigger raise and set mining approach work are appealing. BTW I was uncomfortable playing 5-10 this deep but there were a couple of players in the game who play deep and really like to call. The villain who played this hand with me is a young gun who likes to make a lot of moves.