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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Micro/Small Stakes)

Again on the KK hand - In the comments above, PutMyRobeOnRITE asked:

"Same hand, Table 3

You said you wouldn't be surprised if you were raised on the flop. the Board was like 7xxr kind of dry. Would you flat a raise, or just jam in to stack TT-QQ?"

And you said:



If you don't expect him to have those in his range, then what you shoving for value against on the turn?

Hmmmm yeah you bring up some weird things I said there. Having had a few weeks since the hand has played and having time to sit back and think about it I think it's best if I speak my thoughts about it now, after reflecting. Let me just have a fresh run at it.


I think he would be taking stuff like AK/AQ, JJ, TT and getting in pre-flop. I've seen him 4-bet shove these hands 100bb deep before. When I bet the flop and get called he could be on some sort of small PP or SCs that hit a pair, or a pure float (maybe a gutshot... maybe bare overcards). It's hard for me to say what he does with small PPs. Off the top of my head I don't remember seeing him call with them, but he may.

When the turn comes it makes it harder for me to get value as there's less hands to be getting value from, and also because he may not think that I would bluff on this card a lot. So, if he has less than TP he probably just mucks. I thought he had a lot of floats in his range so I checked to induce a bluff. Essentially, I think I get better value by checking.

Then he does a very small bet amount there on the turn, which is unlikely to be a bluff. It's likely to be some sort of thin value hand. I should just call here. We already are discounting the overpair hands because of pre-flop play, so there's not many combos I can get called by that I beat, and there aren't very many hands that I beat but have equity against me, so raising to collect dead equity is not a valid reason.

I definitely think the turn shove is a mistake in hindsight.

cool, so are you calling turn and river?

Then he does a very small bet amount there on the turn, which is unlikely to be a bluff. It's likely to be some sort of thin value hand.

why do you not expect this to be a bluff? Seems like a decent sizing to take with his whole range on that board as it gives him a good price on his bluffs and he can still get stacks in on the river with his value hands.

Time Link to 00:03:39

any reason for folding the AJo on the upper right?

cool, so are you calling turn and river?



why do you not expect this to be a bluff? Seems like a decent sizing to take with his whole range on that board as it gives him a good price on his bluffs and he can still get stacks in on the river with his value hands.

I don't think he's thinking on that level. In fact, I think very few 100NL guys are thinking about bluffing small. Most guys just bet big when they want a bluff. I don't have any reason to give him credit for betting that small. You very rarely see guys bet that small, which is a good indication that they aren't bluffing that way.

any reason for folding the AJo on the upper right?

Pretty much an auto-fold for me. I don't think it's good enough hand vs a tight range opening range ... especially OOP. We can't really call and do much of anything profitably. I don't think his range is wide enough for me to 3-bet either. I don't see where the profit is coming from, so I fold.

Time Link to 00:25:37

Here on table 1 with 99, why do you call here and what is your plan?

1- Because we have showdown value? Then plan will be to see a cheap showdown by checking most of the turns and rivers.

2- Because we expect vilain to shutdown a lot OTT and we might be able to turn our hand into a bluff on a lot of turn cards?

Time Link to 00:42:15

Just wanted to discuss a little more in depth the "barrel fish on the turn" topic because I remember you brought this up in the first episode and I paid attention to it. I migth be one of those "don't bluff fish" thinker, but I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me.

So, for example, in the QQ hand (at 37:03), I guess your turn barreling range will be something like :

A lot of Ax hands, like ATx+, KQ, FDs, Straigh draws + obviously a wide value range? So in end, we should be barreling a large part of our flop cbetting range OTT even vs weak players that don't fold much vs cbet?

Here on table 1 with 99, why do you call here and what is your plan?

1- Because we have showdown value? Then plan will be to see a cheap showdown by checking most of the turns and rivers.

2- Because we expect vilain to shutdown a lot OTT and we might be able to turn our hand into a bluff on a lot of turn cards?

I'm more looking to bet the turn to get him to fold one heart hands that I'm mostly ahead of. I don't think he'll barrel me off my hand that much on that board so when he does bet the turn I can comfortably fold.

Just wanted to discuss a little more in depth the "barrel fish on the turn" topic because I remember you brought this up in the first episode and I paid attention to it. I migth be one of those "don't bluff fish" thinker, but I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me.

So, for example, in the QQ hand (at 37:03), I guess your turn barreling range will be something like :

A lot of Ax hands, like ATx+, KQ, FDs, Straigh draws + obviously a wide value range? So in end, we should be barreling a large part of our flop cbetting range OTT even vs weak players that don't fold much vs cbet?

Yes, I think so provided that we think they'll be folding a lot on the turn. On this particular board texture I think we should be betting two with a ton of hands. I might give up on the flop if my hand doesn't offer much room for improvement AND our opponent won't fold the flop much.

I think it's helpful to breakdown they ways we can win. We want to be putting money in pots that we have some chance of actually winning, right?

When we have an airball then we can't win unless we make our opponent fold because we have air.

So if your opponent very rarely folds the flop, then why bet? Well, you can bet if you get your opponent to fold a lot on the turn even if they don't fold a lot on the flop.

Ok, that's good, but can you bet a lot on the turn? We then have to ask what we can legimiately bet on the turn given our hand. On some board textures we'll find that we can really only bet the turn 1/3 of the time. If your opponent is only folding the flop 30%, and 40% on the turn (but you can only bluff 1/3 of the time) then you probably just want to give up with your hand or delayed c-bet. However, if you have a situation where you can bet the turn 50% of the time and experience 50% FE on the turn, then you might consider betting the flop with a wider range in the first stage of a 2-barrel bluff.

I think it's good to use the EV table and run some simulations on 2-barrels given different 2-barrels percentages and flop/turn FE's to get a feel for what these situations look like.

If he calls the turn we also lose the $25 we bet on the turn, which makes it -EV.

Good catch, people need to see this comment to realize the calculation above isn't 100% accurate with straight air

Time Link to 00:57:37

Are you giving up the river with this guy calls the turn or we jamming and hoping he has some stubborn under-pair that can't call?

Are you giving up the river with this guy calls the turn or we jamming and hoping he has some stubborn under-pair that can't call?

I think jamming the river is pretty reasonable.