# Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Micro/Small Stakes)

## Come Full Circle: Episode Two

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### Come Full Circle: Episode Two by threads13

Threads13 has some more 100NL going on 4-tables.

Threads13 returns to the virtual felt at the Merge Network. Learn about how the FR games are playing, and what strategy adjustments you should make, post-BF.

### Video Details

• Game:
• Stakes: Micro/Small Stakes
• 60 minutes long
• Posted over 1 year ago

## Comments for Come Full Circle: Episode Two

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#### Diddy

23 posts
Joined 07/2011

Thx for doing EV calculation. I would love to see, if you could include an Equity-Calculation into this kind of EV-calculation. I have no idea how to do this.

#### B-rye88

2829 posts
Joined 01/2011

Diddy:

A simplified way of doing this is to calculate your equity vs villains range and then to use the (equity %) x (size of the pot) as a discount on the bet.

A simplified example:

You check/ship a flop with an open ended straight flush draw. Assume 100bb starting stacks and it's a 3bet pot and villain has cbet. Pot at the start of the pot we'll assume to be 20bb, and assume his cbet is 10bb. You ship 90bb to win 30bb. You assume you have 40% equity when called, and the final pot will be 200bb. Therefore, you will win an average of 80bb (40% X 200bb) from the pot when called.

You can take this 80bb as a discount on your 90bb bluff, and say that you are only shipping 10bb to win 30bb, and therefore villain only needs to fold 25% of the time for you to BE.

1771 posts
Joined 03/2008

Do you recommend slowplaying KK and AA on you're first 3-bet? Table 3

90% of the time I 3-bet a tag for the first time they fold. I know that makes for good argument to
3-bet bluff them 1 or 2 times before you are dealt a monster, but how do you feel about just flatting
when you haven't 3-bet them yet?

-thx.

No way. This player I have 1.8k FR hands on. We play 6-max together as well. There's a lot of history between us. As I mention, he isn't into folding vs me so flatting misses a ton of value.

Same hand, Table 3

You said you wouldn't be surprised if you were raised on the flop. the Board was like 7xxr kind of dry. Would you flat a raise, or just jam in to stack TT-QQ?

He probably doesn't have those in this range. He'd likely 4-bet shove them pre. Thus, he's much more likely on a bluff so I probably flat or 3-bet small to induce a bluff shove.

Table 4 you were thinking about check raising Gilad as a bluff with 99.

If Gilad had AK/AQ on the A high board in that situation and thought he could continue because you had enough bluffs or weird raises with worse hands, I think Gillad can only call your flop check raise, it would be insane to do anything else right?

I think that's where I was going with it, but looking at the hand now it's probably better to OOP float as a bluff.

Table 2, glissdady 3-bet you bvb you had TT and were planning on getting it in, if you had 22-99 how would you react to that 3-bet?

Of course. 4-bet/folding TT vs a guy who is very in my face pre-flop sounds insane.

I'd probably flat 99 and 88.

Table 2 we open 84s otb, and I think a fish is in the blind. Aren't we supposed to be ditching speculative hands w/out SD value against loose passive or loose aggressive fish since they are harder to bluff post flop?

The problem with this line of thought is we are labeling 84s "speculative". It's a label I never use because it's not descriptive at all. It doesn't talk about type of hands we are going to flop/turn. It just implies that we have big hands on the river a lot. That's interesting, but the flop is pretty important so using a term that completely neglects it, in a roundabout way, kind of neglects the flop. It puts the emphasis on making a big hand and implies that nothing else good came come from this hand. Thus we should fold the hand pre-flop, right?

Let's talk about what this hand really does. This hand will flop a lot of draws and a lot of medium strength pairs. Draws will be good to bluff with and it will be easy to bluff a player who has nothing most of the time. We still get paid when we hit them too. Also, a pair like 8x is going to be a hand we can value bet (because since the player has nothing he will give us some FE and still call with hands that 8x will beat). Same thing goes to a lesser degree with 4x.

Players like this just give you a lot of equity in both pot and fold. They don't have much, so they fold a lot. But they still call with trashy hands, even though they fold a lot, so we still have decent equity when we get call. It's very much a best of both worlds, so we should play a lot of hands. It's a great situation.

On Table 4 in the 3-bet pot....I like Gillad's Turn Check against you with AK. If he considers you to be a good player and not a station, how likely is it that he's going to get 3-streets of value?

I agree, but do you really think I'm folding KQ on the turn? Hard for me to find a fold with that hand. What about QQ? He certainly gets value playing his hand this way, but he gives me a free card and doesn't really get "better" value unless I'm bluffing and it's hard for him to give me credit for a lot of bluffs on this board texture. He also checked the top of his range, so his range gets very weighted towards bluffs in the future.

1771 posts
Joined 03/2008

If he calls the turn we also lose the \$25 we bet on the turn, which makes it -EV.

Ah ha! Good catch. I was really surprised to see this come out +EV and good to see my intuition was correct.

As you can see, getting a little bit of a hand really makes it easy to see how we can make up that small about of -EV.

1771 posts
Joined 03/2008

Disagree about flatting AKs on table 1 for the reason that he doesn't fold to 4bets.

This means you can 4b small to, say, \$20, and one of two good things could happen.

1) He small 5bet/bluffs. He's in position, your 150bb deep, he can probably 5bet to \$38 or \$42 or something and get you to fold all your bluffs, and if he's never folding to your 4bets then he probably is the type to at least consider doing this.

2) He could call; he's in position and he's not facing awful odds, so I could easily see him calling with some hands that you have dominated or have to fold on a lot of flops.

This only changes if you think that he's the type of player to nit out 150bb deep, but given your general read on villain I don't think this is the case.

Yeah I should 4-bet him for value. I pulled up the hand and saw the player and just immediately though "I'm surprised I suggested a flat here".

1771 posts
Joined 03/2008

Given the board in analysis, I wouldn't even say it's 35%, 60%. It's tough for him to even call with JJ here, so I'd probably say 35%, 75-80%. As said previously though, your FS when he calls turn is is around \$50, drops around \$5 off of your average FS.

What exactly are you referring to? My FE? Yeah, I agree it's hard for him to call with very many hands on the river so I should have a ton of FE.

1771 posts
Joined 03/2008

Hello,

very nice vid. I have one question to table 4:

Why do you c-bet this Board with K8o?

I guess, he will call preflop a lot of broadway-typ-hands. These hands will hit this Board imo very hard and therefore he will very often call a c-bet.

He's fairly tight so he's folding anything worse than 9x, imo. Maybe a few floats with AQ/AK and gutshots/OESDs, but thats about it. The only way he has a J is AJs, KJs, QJs, JTs. I don't put him on loose enough to have things like JTo in his range, so he actually doesn't have that many Jx. I think you get a fold about 50% of the time here.

You can use Combonator (as I showed at the end of episode 1) to take a look at this situation. See if my 60% FE estimate is right if he is only calling pre-flop with JJ-22, AQ, AJ-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs. He only calls the flop with 99+, AQ, Jx, KQs, QTs, KTs. Doing this really helps these things
becomes intuition while you are playing.

As an aside, if you were going to pick a hand to give up with, this is a pretty good one. It's totally bricked this board. So, if we thought our opponent was going to play aggressively here if we c-bet too much, then we need to start checking hands like this.

#### B-rye88

2829 posts
Joined 01/2011

What exactly are you referring to? My FE? Yeah, I agree it's hard for him to call with very many hands on the river so I should have a ton of FE.

Yes, I am regarding your FE on the turn. Given his flat pre-flop and him being in the CO it's pretty hard for him to have an AK float, and so his range boils down to basically Kx floats that ran into a pair (not weighted very heavily), maybe 99-JJ (if he's willing to call turn fold river w/ this hand), and *maybe* 98s assuming he raise/calls that preflop.

#### PutMyRobeOnRITE

191 posts
Joined 06/2009

No way. This player I have 1.8k FR hands on. We play 6-max together as well. There's a lot of history between us. As I mention, he isn't into folding vs me so flatting misses a ton of value.

He probably doesn't have those in this range. He'd likely 4-bet shove them pre. Thus, he's much more likely on a bluff so I probably flat or 3-bet small to induce a bluff shove.

I think that's where I was going with it, but looking at the hand now it's probably better to OOP float as a bluff.

Of course. 4-bet/folding TT vs a guy who is very in my face pre-flop sounds insane.

I'd probably flat 99 and 88.

The problem with this line of thought is we are labeling 84s "speculative". It's a label I never use because it's not descriptive at all. It doesn't talk about type of hands we are going to flop/turn. It just implies that we have big hands on the river a lot. That's interesting, but the flop is pretty important so using a term that completely neglects it, in a roundabout way, kind of neglects the flop. It puts the emphasis on making a big hand and implies that nothing else good came come from this hand. Thus we should fold the hand pre-flop, right?

Let's talk about what this hand really does. This hand will flop a lot of draws and a lot of medium strength pairs. Draws will be good to bluff with and it will be easy to bluff a player who has nothing most of the time. We still get paid when we hit them too. Also, a pair like 8x is going to be a hand we can value bet (because since the player has nothing he will give us some FE and still call with hands that 8x will beat). Same thing goes to a lesser degree with 4x.

Players like this just give you a lot of equity in both pot and fold. They don't have much, so they fold a lot. But they still call with trashy hands, even though they fold a lot, so we still have decent equity when we get call. It's very much a best of both worlds, so we should play a lot of hands. It's a great situation.

I agree, but do you really think I'm folding KQ on the turn? Hard for me to find a fold with that hand. What about QQ? He certainly gets value playing his hand this way, but he gives me a free card and doesn't really get "better" value unless I'm bluffing and it's hard for him to give me credit for a lot of bluffs on this board texture. He also checked the top of his range, so his range gets very weighted towards bluffs in the future.

#### DjuNKeLL

135 posts
Joined 05/2009

On table 1 and 2 you have AKs and JTs and a weak player behind in both situations. Earlier, you said you want to raise big(ger) again versus weak players with valuehands.

Is this just auto-piloting making it 2,87bb or any specific reason to open smaller?

1771 posts
Joined 03/2008

On table 1 and 2 you have AKs and JTs and a weak player behind in both situations. Earlier, you said you want to raise big(ger) again versus weak players with valuehands.

Is this just auto-piloting making it 2,87bb or any specific reason to open smaller?

Yeah, pretty much. Neither of those situations are super obvious "you'll have a big fish OOP vs you" spots though, (in one hand its not a super-fish, in another the fish would have position) so it's debatable on which is better. Not too big of a deal either way there.

#### Seq

31 posts
Joined 03/2010

Table 2, glissdady 3-bet you bvb you had TT and were planning on getting it in, if you had 22-99 how would you react to that 3-bet?

Of course. 4-bet/folding TT vs a guy who is very in my face pre-flop sounds insane.

I'd probably flat 99 and 88.

What's the difference between staking of TT and flating 99,88 oop vs his wide 3b/5b shove range?

#### Ass Get to Jigglin

4273 posts
Joined 10/2010

KK hand on bottom left - you say his turn sizing looks value-ish, but shouldn't he be making that turn sizing with his entire range? It's cheap as a bluff, and sets up stacks nice for river bluffs and value shoves.

1771 posts
Joined 03/2008

What's the difference between staking of TT and flating 99,88 oop vs his wide 3b/5b shove range?

TT is a better hand

Check out your equity vs a wide 5b range. Give him something like 88+,AQ+.

#### Ass Get to Jigglin

4273 posts
Joined 10/2010

Again on the KK hand - In the comments above, PutMyRobeOnRITE asked:

"Same hand, Table 3

You said you wouldn't be surprised if you were raised on the flop. the Board was like 7xxr kind of dry. Would you flat a raise, or just jam in to stack TT-QQ?"

And you said:

He probably doesn't have those in this range. He'd likely 4-bet shove them pre. Thus, he's much more likely on a bluff so I probably flat or 3-bet small to induce a bluff shove.

If you don't expect him to have those in his range, then what you shoving for value against on the turn?

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