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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Micro/Small Stakes)

nice video
how can i get my hud popup have same stats that u have? (when u right click on a guy) i see u had many things im missing,
also why do u have different timezones in ur browser?

upper left with AQo - you say your going to bet twice there a lot if you get one caller. Would it be for thin value?

Good question. There's certainly a thin value component to it, but it's mostly as a bluff/collection of dead on the turn. Depending on who calls (the villain, his position, etc) we will get floated by a lot of stuff on these boards.

Five years ago the advice was "always c-bet these boards because nobody hits them" but nowadays everyone knows that. So, now it's become... "don't fold to c-bets on those boards because no one hits them." This means just betting one and giving up is a bad idea. You aren't getting that many folds. Bluffing once when you aren't getting enough folds is clearly -EV.

The good news is that at these stakes these guys have a plan of "I'm going to call the flop and hope he doesn't bet the turn... if he does I guess he just has it". If a player is saying "I'm going to call the flop with junk, but then fold the turn" (a pretty bad strategy vs a smart player) then he has a really weak range on the board, and rarely has anything. When players have weak ranges, we should be betting a lot. So, what has happened is instead of them folding a bunch on the flop, they just fold a bunch on the turn instead. So, now the advice is "2-barrel on these boards because no one ever has anything." You actually prefer people float on this board if they are just folding the turn a lot. You win more money that way.


We might be able to get a little bit of thin value by getting called by draws, and potentially c/c'ing to induce a bluff on the river if it bricks out.

I notice your cbet bluffing sizing vs fish is like 2/3 pot. Don't you think we can go smaller like half pot or even a little bit less than half pot since we are really just trying to make them fold air?

Another good question. I'm glad you brought this up.

I think that's a common piece of advice that I think is kind of narrow. A lot of time fish get to the turn with weak hand ranges so we end up deciding to 2-barrel them off of that stuff as well. We don't have to "not bluff the fish". That's silly. We just don't try to bluff them off of anything good. However, we all know they are getting to the turn with bottom pair and gutshots, and even K-high in some spots. If that's the case you often have decent fold equity on the turn. If that's the case, we win more money if we make it bigger on the flop, even if we don't get much more folds. Sure, we are risking more money, but we can do this at times where the risk isn't as high. So, if we bet bigger when we likely half more FE and more PE, then we aren't really risking much more money, but we do win more money.

Let's say that you half pot it on the flop and you expect 37% FE. How much FE do we need to make 2/3's the same EV (in a vacuum)? The answer is about 43%. So, I think we get close to that much FE in a vacuum (you can check this in Holdem Vision, actually). You also can make back any lost EV on the turn a lot of times.


However, if we're going to bet just once, then I will tend to bet smaller. The general rule of thumb is the more often you're going to continue betting, the bigger you tend to bet. You'll find that a lot of my flop bets are bigger because I'm planning to bet a lot on the turn.

There probably a half pot c-bet vs a fish in there somewhere. It should tend to be on a board where it's not going to offer a lot of obvious scare cards and/or I don't have much of a hand to continue my bluff with.

Let's say that you half pot it on the flop and you expect 37% FE. How much FE do we need to make 2/3's the same EV (in a vacuum)? The answer is about 43%. So, I think we get close to that much FE in a vacuum (you can check this in Holdem Vision, actually). You also can make back any lost EV on the turn a lot of times.

so you think that a 2/3's bet does increase your flop fold equity over a 1/2 bet on a lot of boards?

However, if we're going to bet just once, then I will tend to bet smaller. The general rule of thumb is the more often you're going to continue betting, the bigger you tend to bet. You'll find that a lot of my flop bets are bigger because I'm planning to bet a lot on the turn.

Isn't this only true if their calling ranges are inelastic on the earlier streets? In other words, if a big bet on the flop means he has a stronger calling range that is therefore less likely to be folding the turn, but a smaller bet on the flop means he has a weaker calling range that is therefore more likely to be folding the turn, then in this case isn't betting smaller better when we plan to continue betting?

thanks for the discussion, really liking a lot of your videos.

Good question. There's certainly a thin value component to it, but it's mostly as a bluff/collection of dead on the turn. Depending on who calls (the villain, his position, etc) we will get floated by a lot of stuff on these boards.

Five years ago the advice was "always c-bet these boards because nobody hits them" but nowadays everyone knows that. So, now it's become... "don't fold to c-bets on those boards because no one hits them." This means just betting one and giving up is a bad idea. You aren't getting that many folds. Bluffing once when you aren't getting enough folds is clearly -EV.

The good news is that at these stakes these guys have a plan of "I'm going to call the flop and hope he doesn't bet the turn... if he does I guess he just has it". If a player is saying "I'm going to call the flop with junk, but then fold the turn" (a pretty bad strategy vs a smart player) then he has a really weak range on the board, and rarely has anything. When players have weak ranges, we should be betting a lot. So, what has happened is instead of them folding a bunch on the flop, they just fold a bunch on the turn instead. So, now the advice is "2-barrel on these boards because no one ever has anything." You actually prefer people float on this board if they are just folding the turn a lot. You win more money that way.


We might be able to get a little bit of thin value by getting called by draws, and potentially c/c'ing to induce a bluff on the river if it bricks out.

cool, yeah this makes sense vs a reg when we are oop. But in position, do we still expect ppl to be floating oop a lot? And if they are, then doesn't that mean that checking back turn and calling river is more profitable as we lose the same amount against his made hands that we would have had we bet the turn, but we win a bet from his floats that would have just folded turn had we bet?

so you think that a 2/3's bet does increase your flop fold equity over a 1/2 bet on a lot of boards?

Sure, some. Certainly depends on a lot of variables, but I do think in general we experience more FE with bigger bets. There's times where it doesn't matter though, for sure.

Isn't this only true if their calling ranges are inelastic on the earlier streets? In other words, if a big bet on the flop means he has a stronger calling range that is therefore less likely to be folding the turn, but a smaller bet on the flop means he has a weaker calling range that is therefore more likely to be folding the turn, then in this case isn't betting smaller better when we plan to continue betting?

thanks for the discussion, really liking a lot of your videos.

Sure, that's probably true, but if we're following up with a big bet on the turn maybe he's folding some stuff on the turn to a 2-barrel that he wouldn't fold if we had went half-half, right? It can definitely go both ways. Just depends on the situation. I'd suggest firing up combonator and playing with some ranges. If we get a little extra FE on the flop, but make him fold stronger hands on the turn... then it can even out. It's hard to really know the answer to that question without getting into the math, imo. You definitely bring up a good point.

Something else to think about, say we have a hand that can hit and v-bet later. Say it's a FD. When we hit it is nice to be able to make bigger v-bets. It's a hard question to answer, but I feel like that hidden EV can really be easily underestimated. It should help your hand for both bet sizes, of course. Intuitively I feel like that will help the bigger bets more than the smaller bets.

It's hard to get too specific without talking about examples. I will say that I tend to lean towards bigger bets when I'm in doubt. It doesn't take much more FE to make it better as a bluff, and if you're cleanly v-betting then you definitely want the bigger bet.

Another point, if stack sizes become a constraint I start scaling my bet sizes down.

cool, yeah this makes sense vs a reg when we are oop. But in position, do we still expect ppl to be floating oop a lot? And if they are, then doesn't that mean that checking back turn and calling river is more profitable as we lose the same amount against his made hands that we would have had we bet the turn, but we win a bet from his floats that would have just folded turn had we bet?

So many variables involved there. Say we open UTG and c-bet on 554s vs a BB caller. I don't expect him to with as weak of a range. Change it to us opening OTB and the BB calls. Same board. I expect him to call a little lighter.

It also depends on who the player is, recent history, board texture, and so on.

In general I don't do a lot of checking back to induce bluffs on the turn because most regs are not aggro enough, in general,l at these stakes. If anything, they are out of balance in most spots in that they don't have a bluffing range to go with their value range. So, if I induce bluffs they often end up being accidentally balanced. That's not to say I wouldn't ever do it, but I know it's not a line that I end up taking a lot.

Glad you're liking the videos.

Can you please move to Canada and play 50-200NL on Stars? And if you dont' like snow, Mexico would be nice too... :-)

Your videos keep getting better. Great job!

Thank you. Glad to hear you are enjoying the videos and that my work is showing.

Since you mention it, I actually have been putting some thought into moving to Costa Rica when I get my FTP money back. At that point I'd probably start playing 200NL on Stars again.

nice video
how can i get my hud popup have same stats that u have? (when u right click on a guy) i see u had many things im missing,
also why do u have different timezones in ur browser?

For the most part those are all popups that I've created. You can check HEM's site for tutorials on how to do that. Also, Josh goes through create pop-ups on an episode of a series... App Attack maybe?

My timezone thing is for scheduling lessons with students.

I think Axs is typically a call here unless you have a reason not to. You are calling with this hand because it flops good a lot. If it hits an A, it's likely the best hand. It flops the NFD, which is a pretty strong draw, 10% of the time.

I wouldn't say I call to "outplay". I dislike that explanation because it's so vague. What's it mean? I "outplay" by calling with 72o and just constantly folding unless I flop trips. I'm playing perfectly right? I think what people mean by that is "we're going to have to bluff". I like that explanation as it is much more descriptive about what really we mean. Yes, we are definitely going to have to bluff from time to time. We're also going to flop the best hand fairly often. However, it's pretty easy to get enough fold equity when you have the NFD+over or NFD+TP 10% of the time. The more out opponent is building a big pot with a wide and weak range, and then folding, the less of a hand we need to bluff him post-flop. So, we can then call with more hands. So we can start calling with SCs, suited one-gappers, and so on. They don't flop the best hand as often, but they flop a lot of draws to bluff with. That's a great idea if your villain is 3-betting with a wide range, and then will fold it a lot. If he's playing a lot of hands that require you to fold and have little showdown value, then don't fold a lot, and collect all that dead equity.

Yes, the pre-flop pot odds are a variable, but ranges are more important, imo. So, if a guy makes it a little smaller than "standard" then I'll call with a few more hands. When facing a smaller than normal raise, I often ask myself what I would do vs this player if he had made a normal raise... and then I loosen it up a little. I think using pre-flop pot odds as huge justification is a big mistake from just a pure theoretical standpoint. It's nice to get better odds, but it's not a huge deal. If you play a tight range vs a 3x, then you play a slightly less tight range vs a 2x. If you're playing a wide range vs a 3x, you're playing an even wider range vs a 2x. You don't go from playing a tight range vs a 3x to playing a very wide range vs a 2x. It doesn't make sense.

Thank you again for this great quality answer! Looking forward for another very interesting series.

How do you get blue card backs on BBJ tables?

How do you get blue card backs on BBJ tables?

I'm pretty sure that's the default at BCP.

Time Link to 00:13:11

u think 3betting Q2s oop is +ev here? you have to always fold to a 4bet, and he will also call you pretty wide IMO. Q2s plays pretty badly oop in a 3bet pot, I'd much rather 3bet a suited broadway, Axs, or a pocket pair here.

I also don't think you can give yourself a lot of extra FE due to the fact that you just 'got caught', most of these regs are playing 10+ tables and are semi-autopiloting.

u think 3betting Q2s oop is +ev here? you have to always fold to a 4bet, and he will also call you pretty wide IMO. Q2s plays pretty badly oop in a 3bet pot, I'd much rather 3bet a suited broadway, Axs, or a pocket pair here.

I also don't think you can give yourself a lot of extra FE due to the fact that you just 'got caught', most of these regs are playing 10+ tables and are semi-autopiloting.

He's opening really wide OTB and folding to 90% of 3-bets over a reasonable sample, so I think I can 3-bet regardless, and Q2s has some equity. I suppose he can call with a decent amount of hands, but it doesn't look like he actually will. I don't think it's a horrible hand because I do have a high card to out flop him when he has medium pairs and other high card hands, and I have the suitedness to bluff with from time to time. I do think I have extra FE from getting caught just from having done it a lot and having been really successful. Sure, that's a hard thing to quantify, but in my experience I often get a lot folds when I 3-bet in these situations. Having said that, he's folding to 90% of 3-bets so he probably just folds all the time anyways. If he's folding that much, we should be 3-betting him with like a 20% range... probably more. I'd say Q2s is in that 20% range.

I probably wouldn't 3-bet Axs, suited broadways, or PPs. I think all of those are good enough to call, but I know different people feel differently about this. I like flatting those, so I wouldn't be 3-betting them unless I thought he was calling a whole bunch and playing poorly post-flop (I get value). He's folding 90% so I'm certainly not value 3-betting them.

oh didnt notice hes folding to 90% of 3bets in that case u can 3bet pretty wide, that would prob still be near the bottom of your range?