Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Micro/Small Stakes)

Mentor: Threads13 (#3) - 6-tabling Video Review

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Mentor: Threads13 (#3) - 6-tabling Video Review by threads13

Threads13 and his student review a 6-tabling video of his play at 100NL Full Ring.

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threads13 full ring mentor frnlhe nlhe 6-tabling 100nl 100 nl

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: Micro/Small Stakes
  • 66 minutes long
  • Posted over 3 years ago

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Comments for Mentor: Threads13 (#3) - 6-tabling Video Review

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straddle_me

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8 posts
Joined 10/2009

damn I miss full ring 6 table videos on ps and ft. So sad. Thanks though brings back fond memories.

Posted over 3 years ago

StazLyrixX

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5 posts
Joined 06/2009

Time Link to 00:15:52

Sry but i i hate your thought process in that spot. turning QQ into a bluff here is by faaaar the worst option. if ur hand was Q5s here im sure u would have insta mucked ur hand without even thinking about cold 4bet bluffing. if ur 4betting here u have to get it in!! cold 4 bet QQ with eff 100bb and then folding is never ever an option. calling here is the best option in my opinion. go froom there and reevaluate. there also is a 50bb fish. its ok if he calls with some crapy hand and stacks of with some bllshit on the flop. and the pfr does not get very good odds to setmine here so he never has an easy decision if u call. if he now shoves and anyone else is folding u can call if u think he shoves may be JJ+Ak+ with also dead $ in the pot. if u 4 bet here every one at the table plays perfectly against u and u putting 30bb in the pot willing to fold !?!? come on. plz!?!?!? still cannot belive u both think this is an option!?!?!!?. if u have no clue what 2 do in this situation then plz fold.

Posted over 3 years ago

threads13

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2474 posts
Joined 03/2008

Sry but i i hate your thought process in that spot. turning QQ into a bluff here is by faaaar the worst option. if ur hand was Q5s here im sure u would have insta mucked ur hand without even thinking about cold 4bet bluffing. if ur 4betting here u have to get it in!! cold 4 bet QQ with eff 100bb and then folding is never ever an option. calling here is the best option in my opinion. go froom there and reevaluate. there also is a 50bb fish. its ok if he calls with some crapy hand and stacks of with some bllshit on the flop. and the pfr does not get very good odds to setmine here so he never has an easy decision if u call. if he now shoves and anyone else is folding u can call if u think he shoves may be JJ+Ak+ with also dead $ in the pot. if u 4 bet here every one at the table plays perfectly against u and u putting 30bb in the pot willing to fold !?!? come on. plz!?!?!? still cannot belive u both think this is an option!?!?!!?. if u have no clue what 2 do in this situation then plz fold.



As we explained in the vid, if he shoves we think he never has JJ, or AK so its an easy fold. IF we flat we turn our hand face up and our opponent plays perfectly. If he's going to play AK perfectly, we might as well make him fold it.

Like I said in the vid I almost prefer folding over flatting. "Call and reevaluate" is usually code for "call and fold on most flops" or "call and not know what to do on any flop" Smile. I can't see how that's the best option. You won't be happy when 3-bettor c-bets, and you won't be happy when he checks. Donking also makes your opponent play perfectly for the most part (you also hate a raise), and in the event that you like donking, then why is 4-betting a bad idea?

Seems like no matter what happens on the flop, it's not that great for us! I don't see how post-flop can go that lets our opponent make mistakes. If he's not going to make many mistakes you might as well just make him fold his equity share. That makes 4-bet the best.

Posted over 3 years ago

Superchimp8

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221 posts
Joined 06/2008

Sry but i i hate your thought process in that spot. turning QQ into a bluff here is by faaaar the worst option. if ur hand was Q5s here im sure u would have insta mucked ur hand without even thinking about cold 4bet bluffing. if ur 4betting here u have to get it in!! cold 4 bet QQ with eff 100bb and then folding is never ever an option. calling here is the best option in my opinion. go froom there and reevaluate. there also is a 50bb fish. its ok if he calls with some crapy hand and stacks of with some bllshit on the flop. and the pfr does not get very good odds to setmine here so he never has an easy decision if u call. if he now shoves and anyone else is folding u can call if u think he shoves may be JJ+Ak+ with also dead $ in the pot. if u 4 bet here every one at the table plays perfectly against u and u putting 30bb in the pot willing to fold !?!? come on. plz!?!?!? still cannot belive u both think this is an option!?!?!!?. if u have no clue what 2 do in this situation then plz fold.



Uninstall your browser please.

Posted over 3 years ago

I3betyoutillyoudie

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2519 posts
Joined 11/2010

Uninstall your browser please.



lolol

Posted over 3 years ago

Finnisher

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206 posts
Joined 09/2009

QQ hand: If you're button here with QQ without too much history vs the mp 12/10 opener do you squeeze or flat? And what if you're SB (if btn folded ldo)? Assuming you're gonna squeeze are you happy if pfr 4bets?

Situation in the vid is a pretty good example of nitty fr dynamic changing very pretty hands to basically at best breakeven crap.

Posted over 3 years ago

threads13

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2474 posts
Joined 03/2008

QQ hand: If you're button here with QQ without too much history vs the mp 12/10 opener do you squeeze or flat? And what if you're SB (if btn folded ldo)? Assuming you're gonna squeeze are you happy if pfr 4bets?

Situation in the vid is a pretty good example of nitty fr dynamic changing very pretty hands to basically at best breakeven crap.




I don' t think our position changes the decision too much. Yeah, we're OOP in the SB example, but if we're 3-betting QQ it should be for value. Is it more for value from the SB or OTB? Seems like roughly the same decision to me. Either way we are 3-betting an MP open and it's probably going to be tricky to get value vs a TAG. 3-betting to "not play OOP" is a bad idea, imo. Either way we are OOP (whether we 3-bet or flat). That doesn't change. So, would we rather play a small pot OOP vs a range we crush, or a big pot OOP vs a range that we roughly flip against? I'd rather play vs the range I crush. Now, if we crush his range for continuing, then we 3-bet it in either spot, but that would be the same regardless of whether we were SB or BTN.

If I'm 3-betting, I'm ok with with getting 4-bet. I wouldn't 3-bet QQ and then be extremely upset about getting 4-bet. If that's the case, what was the value in 3-betting? It would take some super ninja read that the player always calls 3-bet, but never 4-bets without the nuts, to make me 3-bet, but be unhappy about getting 4-bet.

Posted over 3 years ago

Buby2132

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1476 posts
Joined 09/2010

StazLyrixX

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5 posts
Joined 06/2009

As we explained in the vid, if he shoves we think he never has JJ, or AK so its an easy fold. IF we flat we turn our hand face up and our opponent plays perfectly. If he's going to play AK perfectly, we might as well make him fold it.

Like I said in the vid I almost prefer folding over flatting. "Call and reevaluate" is usually code for "call and fold on most flops" or "call and not know what to do on any flop" Smile. I can't see how that's the best option. You won't be happy when 3-bettor c-bets, and you won't be happy when he checks. Donking also makes your opponent play perfectly for the most part (you also hate a raise), and in the event that you like donking, then why is 4-betting a bad idea?

Seems like no matter what happens on the flop, it's not that great for us! I don't see how post-flop can go that lets our opponent make mistakes. If he's not going to make many mistakes you might as well just make him fold his equity share. That makes 4-bet the best.



ok "IF" he really only shoves KK+ here after 4betting him. shure its a fold...but that doesnt make it a good play.
you are overrepping your hand here... and that makes no sense to me! not with the 3rd best startinghand! your play here is so damn marginal. putting cold 30 bb in the pot to bluff against (very) tight ranges where u maybe do not get folds often enough to make this a profitable vacuum play! if only some of that guys sometimes push AK here Your play is a desaster. Why not taking an Ax or Kx hand to 4bet bluff. QQ have so much postflop value!!!! if u cant 4 bet and get it in then u should get a history! 4 bet more often as bluff and 4V so that u have a more aggressiv dynamic. that makes 4bet getting it in easier. ok you might be right our hand is some what face up (you can put some times AA or Kk or Ak in your range if you dont want to make your hand look like JJ or QQ or TTonly) . but you also dont know how good your opponents are. there are a lot scenarios where u can play profitable postflop."Call and reevaluate" is usually code for "call and fold on most flops" or "call and not know what to do on any flop" I agree. thats the reason why you should take this line analyse flop textures and getting better in postflop play then your opp is. same opinion. if you dont wanna play that hand postflop muck it!4betfold is still by far the worst option!

Posted over 3 years ago

threads13

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2474 posts
Joined 03/2008

ok "IF" he really only shoves KK+ here after 4betting him. shure its a fold...but that doesnt make it a good play.
you are overrepping your hand here... and that makes no sense to me! not with the 3rd best startinghand! your play here is so damn marginal. putting cold 30 bb in the pot to bluff against (very) tight ranges where u maybe do not get folds often enough to make this a profitable vacuum play! if only some of that guys sometimes push AK here Your play is a desaster. Why not taking an Ax or Kx hand to 4bet bluff. QQ have so much postflop value!!!! if u cant 4 bet and get it in then u should get a history! 4 bet more often as bluff and 4V so that u have a more aggressiv dynamic. that makes 4bet getting it in easier. ok you might be right our hand is some what face up (you can put some times AA or Kk or Ak in your range if you dont want to make your hand look like JJ or QQ or TTonly) . but you also dont know how good your opponents are. there are a lot scenarios where u can play profitable postflop."Call and reevaluate" is usually code for "call and fold on most flops" or "call and not know what to do on any flop" I agree. thats the reason why you should take this line analyse flop textures and getting better in postflop play then your opp is. same opinion. if you dont wanna play that hand postflop muck it!4betfold is still by far the worst option!




We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Posted over 3 years ago

Finnisher

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206 posts
Joined 09/2009

I don' t think our position changes the decision too much. Yeah, we're OOP in the SB example, but if we're 3-betting QQ it should be for value. Is it more for value from the SB or OTB? Seems like roughly the same decision to me. Either way we are 3-betting an MP open and it's probably going to be tricky to get value vs a TAG. 3-betting to "not play OOP" is a bad idea, imo. Either way we are OOP (whether we 3-bet or flat). That doesn't change. So, would we rather play a small pot OOP vs a range we crush, or a big pot OOP vs a range that we roughly flip against? I'd rather play vs the range I crush. Now, if we crush his range for continuing, then we 3-bet it in either spot, but that would be the same regardless of whether we were SB or BTN.

If I'm 3-betting, I'm ok with with getting 4-bet. I wouldn't 3-bet QQ and then be extremely upset about getting 4-bet. If that's the case, what was the value in 3-betting? It would take some super ninja read that the player always calls 3-bet, but never 4-bets without the nuts, to make me 3-bet, but be unhappy about getting 4-bet.


I don't think 3betting QQ here vs pfr is a ton of value with the halfstacker being in the pot, it looks a lot like we are mostly 3betting value so pfr probably won't play back too light against us. But there's likely a ton of value vs the fish so obv 3betting isn't horrible (and that's where most of the value of 3betting comes from). But there's also a lot of value in flatting, one reason being as you said keeping pfr's range weaker, and the fish will probably do dumb stuff postflop too. Honestly I have no idea how many evbb's we make post from pfr with the fish in the pot, he's fairly unlikely to just go off spazzing which hu would give us value. The fish will probably give us a bit less value than if we 3bet pre? Do you agree that postflop value would be higher on button than in sb tho, and 3betting might have less value cos pfr would likely fold random stuff oop more likely than if he was ip?

What's your first thoughts about 99,tt,jj, aq and stuff here and what hands are you 3bet/folding vs pfr with the idea of getting value from the fish pre?

Posted over 3 years ago

threads13

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2474 posts
Joined 03/2008

I don't think 3betting QQ here vs pfr is a ton of value with the halfstacker being in the pot, it looks a lot like we are mostly 3betting value so pfr probably won't play back too light against us. But there's likely a ton of value vs the fish so obv 3betting isn't horrible (and that's where most of the value of 3betting comes from). But there's also a lot of value in flatting, one reason being as you said keeping pfr's range weaker, and the fish will probably do dumb stuff postflop too. Honestly I have no idea how many evbb's we make post from pfr with the fish in the pot, he's fairly unlikely to just go off spazzing which hu would give us value. The fish will probably give us a bit less value than if we 3bet pre? Do you agree that postflop value would be higher on button than in sb tho, and 3betting might have less value cos pfr would likely fold random stuff oop more likely than if he was ip?



In this spot I think if I'm 3-betting, I'm 3-betting regardless of whether we are OTB or in the SB. It's one of those things that we could discuss the merits too both, but it's hard to know the variables so perfectly to say that in one spot it's a 3-bet, and in another it's a flat. I think that's where you're getting at when you say it's hard to say the EV of post-flop. There's probably too many variables to make a clear cut decision so much that if you're flatting in position you're 3-betting in the other.

I do think I'd be much more likely to 3-bet if we had a deeper stack with the mark.


What's your first thoughts about 99,tt,jj, aq and stuff here and what hands are you 3bet/folding vs pfr with the idea of getting value from the fish pre?



I'm less likely to 3-bet JJ just because it's more difficult to get value and it plays well post-flop multiway anyways. AQ probably is a better idea to 3-bet to try to isolate the mark and get the pot heads up. It isn't going to have a huge edge in a multiway single raised pot.

Posted over 3 years ago

Finnisher

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206 posts
Joined 09/2009

I do think I'd be much more likely to 3-bet if we had a deeper stack with the mark.


This is a good point and I assume you're more likely to 3bet if fish had like -30bb stack too.

btw I think it was a good vid especially cos chuckk made mistakes and didn't try to cover them up, indeed pretty much the opposite, and your vids and monologues are pretty much always good.

Posted over 3 years ago

threads13

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2474 posts
Joined 03/2008

This is a good point and I assume you're more likely to 3bet if fish had like -30bb stack too.

btw I think it was a good vid especially cos chuckk made mistakes and didn't try to cover them up, indeed pretty much the opposite, and your vids and monologues are pretty much always good.





Hmmmm actually I think it's more of a flat with the shorter stack. We will have no problem getting the money in post-flop anyways, so I think we have a less of a concern of getting the money in pre. If it were just the mark who had opened then I definitely 3-bet, but I think it's more important to play well with the 100bb than the 30bb.

Just thinking outloud... we may be able to 3-bet our slightly lesser hands for value/isolation easier though because the TAG will see a 3-bet there as super-strong because of the short stack rec player.

ty ty!

Posted over 3 years ago




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