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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by livebikebart (High Stakes)

I was fricking appalled in LA when the I chopped and the dealer kept my $2. You just get your money back in Vegas. What about the decision to not ever chop... Most books (Carro, Doyle etc) say you should maintain a happy, personable image at the table. Is it better to not chop/piss someone off and have them go after you, or have them want to be your friend and enjoy your presence?

There are so many people in my player pool that it really doesn't matter if they like me or not. I think that there is much more immediate value in winning a big pot blind vs blind than trying to have everyone at the table like me.

Hey Bart have you thought off doing an episode with LIMON as a co-host?
could be effing awesome imo

Great series so far btw.

Time Link to 00:46:02

Interesting hand analysis. Why would you discount a 3 bet squeeze by Russian Kid with a 99 with the 9 of diamonds? Do you just not think that it would be possible that he would 3 bet a 99 with all the dead money in the pot?

Interesting hand analysis. Why would you discount a 3 bet squeeze by Russian Kid with a 99 with the 9 of diamonds? Do you just not think that it would be possible that he would 3 bet a 99 with all the dead money in the pot?

99 is definitely possible I don't think that I ever accounted for it in the video. However, what I failed to talk about in the video was his bet timing on the river. He insta bet 1/3 pot, without a second thought. I think someone there with the 9d at least thinks about his sizing.

That's really hard to say. I played 2000 hours of 5-10 and never went on more than a 7k downswing...that is until my most recent 150 hours where I lost 18k straight. I think you can definitely take a shot with 10K and chances are that if you are good you'll run it up to 25 before you run it down to 0.

Hey Bart, love your series so far. I'm in the LA area and considering playing live a bit more to spread out my bankroll and my risk while continuing to play online (while I can). I know this is a topic beat to death, but it seems like there's quite a lot of difference in what people estimate for live winrates and bankroll requirements. Since you're an LA live pro you probably have a better idea of winrates and BR requirements specifically for LA cardrooms than most people.

I was listening to your podcast "Limon III" and he mentioned something like the 2/5 game isn't even worth playing because if you win 5 pots per hour, you get raked like $30/hr and end up with a profit of ~$10/hr. This hourly expectation seems a bit off. Should I really expect to win 5 pots per hour? If my VPIP is 25% and I'm getting dealt 28 hands/hr, that means I'd win 5 out of 7 pots I enter.

I'm not looking for exact numbers but roughly what hourly rates should a solidly winning NL200 online reg expect to win at 2/5, 3/5, 5/5, and/or 5/10? Also, how many BB's for a BR would you consider being adequately rolled for each limit? The game I'd look to start in would be the 2/5 at Hustler, but the buy in is $100-$300, and this very short stack structure would seem to make for a smaller hourly rate.

The drop in Vegas is 10% up to 4 or 5 bucks, + 1 dollar for jackpot. Depending on the house they don't take a jackpot if it's less than 4 handed even if the pot hits 10 dollars. Some places use .50 cent pieces for 10% at increments of 5 dollars. In higher stakes game they may take 1 dollar at 20, 2 at 40, 3 at 60 etc...but I don't play high, so I'm not exact on that.

On the win rates:
I would expect a solid NL200 regular, who can successfully dumb down their game, can expect to win at least 5bb per hour at a standard 2/5 game or even 5/10 game after making the proper adjustments. That rate is considering a 100bb buyin in both. In the deeper games you would expect the win rate to go up. Over time I would expect it to go up. However, if I was planning on completely shifting from being an online professional to being a live professional player then I would probably cut that estimate in half and have enough bankroll to weather some decent break even periods.

With that said, no matter what you bankroll is I would absolutely start at 2/5 even if you play higher than 100NL. There will be an adjustment, to several things that are different between the games. First, getting used to how much slower it is, but if you can focus you can learn a ton about players much faster. Second, adjusting to all the limp/calling and limp/folding and the strange ranges that people have. Third, adjusting to the passivity (especially preflop), Bart's totally right the average non-professional players at 2/5 and 5/10 are probably around %30 vpip with a 5% pfr and a 2% 3bet (QQ+ I doubt even 50% 3bet AK). Four, adjusting to the instant money instead of it being a number in an online account you constantly have all this cash and know how much you win/lose in a given day, which can have big implications on tilt. Five, not tilting when you aren't winning in a game filled with some of the worst players you have seen.

Based on those thoughts and a few others, I would suggest a 20 bi minimum if it's not going to be your only source of income. You could tweak it down to less once you are used to live players and games. However, you have to remember it is easily possible even at a big win rate to go on a 200 to 300 hour break even stretch and if you are a professional player there are several more considerations for your bi requirements based on expected win rate. If it is going to be your sole source of income then I would actually suggest double that.

Rake:
Most of the 5/10 games in Vegas are raked on time, usually 6 to 7 a down (every 30 minutes). Of the 2/5 games I believe that the Venetian still has the best rake but it also usually has the toughest games. I think the rake is $1 for every $20 in the pot with a max of $4 bucks (no bad beat jp drop).

In other locations, I could spend a few pages explaining the raking methodolgy. I think in most "legal games" the rake is almost always capped. However, in many underground games the rake often isn't capped.

For example, at one casino, they drop $1 every hand for the bad beat, and they pull the standard rake schedule if 1 player limps in, but if the blinds are stolen then only the $1 is taken. Of the standard drop, they take 10% of the pot up to $5. Based on this rake at 5/10, the table pulls down about $175 an hour.

I hope that helps.

On the win rates:
I would expect a solid NL200 regular, who can successfully dumb down their game, can expect to win at least 5bb per hour at a standard 2/5 game or even 5/10 game after making the proper adjustments. That rate is considering a 100bb buyin in both. In the deeper games you would expect the win rate to go up. Over time I would expect it to go up. However, if I was planning on completely shifting from being an online professional to being a live professional player then I would probably cut that estimate in half and have enough bankroll to weather some decent break even periods.

With that said, no matter what you bankroll is I would absolutely start at 2/5 even if you play higher than 100NL. There will be an adjustment, to several things that are different between the games. First, getting used to how much slower it is, but if you can focus you can learn a ton about players much faster. Second, adjusting to all the limp/calling and limp/folding and the strange ranges that people have. Third, adjusting to the passivity (especially preflop), Bart's totally right the average non-professional players at 2/5 and 5/10 are probably around %30 vpip with a 5% pfr and a 2% 3bet (QQ+ I doubt even 50% 3bet AK). Four, adjusting to the instant money instead of it being a number in an online account you constantly have all this cash and know how much you win/lose in a given day, which can have big implications on tilt. Five, not tilting when you aren't winning in a game filled with some of the worst players you have seen.

Based on those thoughts and a few others, I would suggest a 20 bi minimum if it's not going to be your only source of income. You could tweak it down to less once you are used to live players and games. However, you have to remember it is easily possible even at a big win rate to go on a 200 to 300 hour break even stretch and if you are a professional player there are several more considerations for your bi requirements based on expected win rate. If it is going to be your sole source of income then I would actually suggest double that.

Rake:
Most of the 5/10 games in Vegas are raked on time, usually 6 to 7 a down (every 30 minutes). Of the 2/5 games I believe that the Venetian still has the best rake but it also usually has the toughest games. I think the rake is $1 for every $20 in the pot with a max of $4 bucks (no bad beat jp drop).

In other locations, I could spend a few pages explaining the raking methodolgy. I think in most "legal games" the rake is almost always capped. However, in many underground games the rake often isn't capped.

For example, at one casino, they drop $1 every hand for the bad beat, and they pull the standard rake schedule if 1 player limps in, but if the blinds are stolen then only the $1 is taken. Of the standard drop, they take 10% of the pot up to $5. Based on this rake at 5/10, the table pulls down about $175 an hour.

I hope that helps.

Thank you so much for this imformation

Thank you Bart for this great video and Thank you for answering my question. On the other hand I have a very interesting live hand from last night. I should post it at the FR form, but I want to know what you guy make of it.
Its 2/5 $300 CAPed Live at the Hustler Casino
I'm UTG with $1100 stack limp with As6s. The table is fairly passive, not a lot 3beting pre. I have decent respect from all the players since I have been crashing them for the past hours.
MP3 called with $300ish stack, He is a chubby kid at least 300 pounds, who has been playing his phone for the whole time, I saw him limp calling a 40 Rise and then check and fold.
Cutoff called with $200 ish stack
Button Called with a $300 ish stack,
Small Blind called with a 250 ish stack.
Big Blind with $200 ish then rise it to $15, he is a old man who has been playing his cards face up, wont lay down top pair+ regardless of action. He plays extreme straight forward.
I called and everybody else called.
Flop is 4d 5h 6c rainbow.
Small blind check, Big Blind check
I decide to test the water, plan to fold to a rise. I bet $30 into the pot of $70( raked a $5)
To my amazing surprise,
MP3 called
Cutoff called
Button called
Small Blind called
And big blind thought about it for a bit and called.
Everyfuckingbody called !!!!!!!!
I was like man I'm done with this hand.
The Turn is Ad, bring a backdoor flash draw, gives me two pair.

Small blind checks,
The big blind (old man, original riser), Bet $40. I just know he got AK or AQ. He has been playing very straight forward. He bets when he hits and fold when he miss. Rarely rise and never saw him bluff.
I decide to call and see what happens.
Here is the most interesting part:
The MP3 reach over to the deal's drawer or pan (where he holds all the chips, button and signs) and grabs the all-in sign and place it in front of him, without even saying anything and continuing to play with his phone. ( He is all in for $270, I need $230 to call)
Cutoff fold
Button fold
Small blind fold
Big Blind thought about it and put his remaining 100ish stack in the middle.
Action goes back to me
The pot is $250+3*40 +$130+$230= 730
And cost me $230 to call getting roughly 3:1.

What do I do ?????

Thanks dkarius, good info. How much do you think the buy-in amounts affect the expected winrates though? Like I mentioned in my post, I think the Hustler 2/5 game has a BI of $100-$300. Almost nowhere in the LA area can you find a game at a cardroom lower than 5/10 where you can buy in for 100bb.

Thanks dkarius, good info. How much do you think the buy-in amounts affect the expected winrates though? Like I mentioned in my post, I think the Hustler 2/5 game has a BI of $100-$300. Almost nowhere in the LA area can you find a game at a cardroom lower than 5/10 where you can buy in for 100bb.

True... so if you want to make a living on poker playing live. 5-10 is the least in L.A..

The deeper the average buy-in the more post flop decisions players have to make. If you are better than your opponents at making turn and river decisions then your win rate can go up quite a bit the deeper the game gets.

To be honest, I have no experience with 20-60bb Buy-in games and any information I gave you would really only be a guess. I might compare it to a typical $1/2 or $1/$3 game for a guess on win rate.

You might consider starting with 50bb at 5/10 instead. It will have a bit more of a swing to it, but would probably be more profitable than 2/5 with a 20-60bb game.

The pot is $250+3*40 +$130+$230= 730
And cost me $230 to call getting roughly 3:1.

What do I do ?????

Well it depends on your read of the situation. I'll agree that you probably have the old man beat. But what hands is the "chubby kid" shoving all-in for. I think we can agree he is very rarely bluffing in this spot. So, what hands is he shoving AI for value? If it includes worse two pair hands then it is positive EV to call. If it doesn't include any two pair hands then a call is negative EV. Obviously, if you think the kid is moving AI with worse than two pair the EV gets even better.

I would encourage you to stick the hand into poker stove. (include the old man's AK). See what combinations of hands give you at least 25% equity. See what combinations give you better than 25% equity. (i.e. the call is positive EV).

BTW, even though you are in a passive game, based on the average stack sizes I think the preflop limp with A6s from UTG is negative EV. You don't have the type of implied odds that make that hand profitable from early position. Tight is still right in many situations.

Also, I don't find it surprising at all that every player called the flop bet. I see this all the time even at 5/10. Even though it is a rainbow board that flop hits a ton of limp/calling hands.

Good luck

Well it depends on your read of the situation. I'll agree that you probably have the old man beat. But what hands is the "chubby kid" shoving all-in for. I think we can agree he is very rarely bluffing in this spot. So, what hands is he shoving AI for value? If it includes worse two pair hands then it is positive EV to call. If it doesn't include any two pair hands then a call is negative EV. Obviously, if you think the kid is moving AI with worse than two pair the EV gets even better.

I would encourage you to stick the hand into poker stove. (include the old man's AK). See what combinations of hands give you at least 25% equity. See what combinations give you better than 25% equity. (i.e. the call is positive EV).

BTW, even though you are in a passive game, based on the average stack sizes I think the preflop limp with A6s from UTG is negative EV. You don't have the type of implied odds that make that hand profitable from early position. Tight is still right in many situations.

Also, I don't find it surprising at all that every player called the flop bet. I see this all the time even at 5/10. Even though it is a rainbow board that flop hits a ton of limp/calling hands.

Good luck

Thank you dkarius:
I dont put him on 2pair or set. I think he would be smart enough to rise it on the flop given how many people are in the pot. I put him on made straight like 78 or 23 and huge draws that just pick up a flash draw.
I give him 12 combos of 78 and 4 combos of 23( since he would rise a button straight sometimes for protection) 4 combos of huge draws( pair plus draw).
I run it up I only have 11% equity.
On the other hand, I think limping utg is close. Right is tight does apply here.

Thank you again.

I will pm you the result

I like your analysis for the AK hand but I think you should consider turning your bluffcatcher into a bluff.
If we assume that all that you say is true - and that neither opponent has Jx of D or very rarely.
And you believe from previous showdowns that he is not betting many low diamonds.
And you dont have strongish reads on how stationary the Asian recreational player is...

I kinda like the idea of check/raising maybe check shipping the river rather than just calling.
Reasoning being - given its rare that either player has nut 2nd holding.
then russians range is one pairs turning into a bluff/ thin value bets
Asian recreational bluff-catchers/give up hands/ very rare superslowplay
then the only difference between c/c and c/r is that sometimes we are being thin value bet when we thought it unlikely and overcalled by asian bluffcatcher diamonds - and we likely can get those to fold also by c/r.

i think check ship is bad on the riv, seems like a check min raise would be better. asian guy always folds and you dont risk your whole stack. Dont know if check min raise is better than a call though

BTW THIS SERIES IS AWESOME!!! KEEPEM COMING DC!!