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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Micro/Small Stakes)

Surrounding your SC discussion
Isnt the most important part that your are OOP.
If they are playing a tight range and they are folding too much - then yes it might be true that the implied odds arent there in most cases.
But if they are folding too much then surely you can bluff more often.
But the problem is being able to do it without using all of your 100bb OOP.

I think you might be able to do it if you are IP without having to ship 100bb.

thoughts?

Surrounding your SC discussion
Isnt the most important part that your are OOP.
If they are playing a tight range and they are folding too much - then yes it might be true that the implied odds arent there in most cases.
But if they are folding too much then surely you can bluff more often.
But the problem is being able to do it without using all of your 100bb OOP.

Right, well being OOP is going to affect our steal equity in the hand. Also, if they are in EP then they have a strong range that will be unprofitable to steal from. So, both things combined make it a pretty clear fold.

With SC's I often want to have some significant steal equity post-flop. If I don't, the hand just goes into the muck.

The implied odds for these sort of hands really just aren't there. They don't flop a big hand that often. They flop two-pair or better 3% of the time. In contrast, PP's flop a set 13% of the time. PP's flop big four times as often and when they do they often flop bigger. PP's have more of an equity lock when they spike because when SC's flop a big hand your villain is much more likely to have some sort of redraw(counterfeiting your two-pair, draws to big flush) as compared to when you have a set. Also, when SC's flop a hand like a draw then we can't really play to hit because TAG's know better than to stack off versus draws so our implied odds with those sort of hands go down. Of course, this means that our steal equity is worth something. This brings me back to the original point which is that if you are going to play the hand then you need to be planning on stealing the pot. If you are playing against a really tight range then you really need to have the button at the very least to play a hand like this HU. As the range gets looser your FE goes up(unless you're playing against a mark because then you are playing against a guy who will stack off light so you now have implied odds to call)so these hands become more profitable.

I think you might be able to do it if you are IP without having to ship 100bb.

thoughts?

Sorry, could you rephrase? Could you time link if you're pointing to a specific hand?

My wife would probably prefer I say, "Oh, The Humanity!" over what i normally say when I lose a lot in a hand.

Time Link to 00:15:58

You say that if we bet the flop against a loose opponent, then check the turn and river, we're helping him play perfectly by letting him mix it up with value betting and bluffing on the river.

Obviously we're looking for good/decent board texture to double barrel, but what's the threshold we're looking for in terms of classifying them as a loose flop calling station? 40 percent fold to flop/continuation bet? 30 percent?

I know it's player dependent, just looking for some numbers to simplify it when I only have 50-100 hands on the guy. For example in general I find light 3-betting a tighty with 9 percent PFR much more profitable than a 4 percent PFR.

You say that if we bet the flop against a loose opponent, then check the turn and river, we're helping him play perfectly by letting him mix it up with value betting and bluffing on the river.

Obviously we're looking for good/decent board texture to double barrel, but what's the threshold we're looking for in terms of classifying them as a loose flop calling station? 40 percent fold to flop/continuation bet? 30 percent?

Yeah, if they are folding to c-bets only 40% of the time or less then you can assume they are likely calling the flop too light. Against players like this we should be less likely to bet the flop as a bluff/semi-bluff if we don't think we can profitably bluff on the turn and/or river. If we just blindly bluff bet into players like this without a plan of barreling then we are just exploiting ourselves by playing right into their strategy. You have to make those flop calls incorrect. To do that you have to be betting the turn and river often.

Yes, one of the spots I don't like in full ring against an 18/14 aggro type guy who calls c-bets in position is when I raise preflop with J J, flop comes something like Q 6iamond 2 Villain flats, and then proceeds to call 1/2 to 2/3 flop bet.

I'm betting the turn most of the time, but get conflicted on betting that flop against that type of player, because if he did hit the queen on the flop he gets 2 and possibly 3 streets of value on me if I then bet the turn, and then check call/fold to a moderate bet size, or make a blocking bet on the river. And if I check the turn, he can then control the pot size and get me off with a worse hand or value town me.

Then again maybe my gripe is all for nothing, since duh I'm out of position

The most common line to take in my opinion for the hand I mentioned above is to check the flop, then bet the turn, because there's a better possibility he calls us with worse, then make a half size bet on the river, and fold to a raise unless I put him on a busted draw. Thoughts?

Yes, one of the spots I don't like in full ring against an 18/14 aggro type guy who calls c-bets in position is when I raise preflop with J J, flop comes something like Q 6iamond 2 Villain flats, and then proceeds to call 1/2 to 2/3 flop bet.

I'm betting the turn most of the time, but get conflicted on betting that flop against that type of player, because if he did hit the queen on the flop he gets 2 and possibly 3 streets of value on me if I then bet the turn, and then check call/fold to a moderate bet size, or make a blocking bet on the river. And if I check the turn, he can then control the pot size and get me off with a worse hand or value town me.

Then again maybe my gripe is all for nothing, since duh I'm out of position

The most common line to take in my opinion for the hand I mentioned above is to check the flop, then bet the turn, because there's a better possibility he calls us with worse, then make a half size bet on the river, and fold to a raise unless I put him on a busted draw. Thoughts?

It's a very dependent on your reads, so I think the best way to answer is to respond with a what would make me take different lines.

A guy who runs 18/14 might be willing to barrel 2 or 3 times if you check the flop to him on a board like Q62 two-tone. If I think of that of the player I would hit the check but with the intention of calling down.

If I think the player is really float happy I would take a line to help him with that. So, bet the flop and check the turn with the intention of NOT folding. I would have to consider check-calling the river also cause this is a spot where I kinda turn my hand face up by check-calling the turn. I might also make sure I balance my range by check-calling big hands as well on the turn if I thought he could read hands that deeply, but that is somewhat unlikely, imo, at these stakes. Thought I'd include that for completeness though.

Against a LAG-TAG type player, I don't see much merit it betting twice. I don't think he will put in nearly as much money with as little equity as if you give him a little rope. However, the time I may do bet twice is if I thought that he thought I would barrel this board. In which case I need to expand my value range and this becomes a 3-streets of value hand because he will call down with worse pairs, but that is not something I expect many players to do at small stakes.

Interesting video, liked it a lot.

What amazes me about the type of tables you mentioned is that its a red flag on the player types.

What I mean is, why the hell would so many tight players sit with each other. (Stars wins!)

It makes no sense while at the same time shows they have some huge holes in their game as regards table selection.
Proving that playing well is just one part of playing a winning game in the modern online game.

I often look some of these player types up on PTR and often they are either barely breakeven or a small winner at best.

Personally I can see the value of sitting in these game but at 50 NL its still easy to find 16-20 tables with at least 2-3 fishy players on them.

I think you summed it up perfectly that in the tighter type games you have to 3 bet wide and steal a lot pre-flop while not being a pay off wizard on later streets without a big hand.

It's much harder to make tight players make a big mistake unless you cooler them.

On a follow up about you timing out, I use a small AHK script called "Stars Urgent table v0.3"

All it does is click the timebank automatically, no more timing out.

I havent tried the newer versions of the free script as the older one works fine for me.

Let me know if you want a copy?

Time Link to 00:08:11

Threads, with AA on this board as an overpair and SPR of less than two, would you still see yourself as committed on the flop if you had a tag raise your c-bet or play bac as opposed to this 38/8 player? is it player dependant in your mind or are you never folding aces this shallow?

Threads, with AA on this board as an overpair and SPR of less than two, would you still see yourself as committed on the flop if you had a tag raise your c-bet or play bac as opposed to this 38/8 player? is it player dependant in your mind or are you never folding aces this shallow?

Yeah, I'd still be committed. If my SPR is 2 on the flop and I have AA I'm pretty much never folding.

Time Link to 00:33:19

Good video! I understand about calling raises with AA versus hand reading TAGs, but what other parameters need to be met to do this?

Also, is there ever a time where you just flat a raise with KK?

Good video! I understand about calling raises with AA versus hand reading TAGs, but what other parameters need to be met to do this?

Also, is there ever a time where you just flat a raise with KK?

Definitely. What you want to look for is a player that is really aggro postflop. You can exploit an over-aggro, 3-barrel bluffing player by calling down with a greater frequency. You can achieve this by calling down with weaker post-flop hands and slow-playing more, yes, but you can also achieve it by making your pre-flop range stronger by flatting with your premiums (and other high card hands) and then just flatting the whole way. So, if I see a guy that is really aggro postflop then I will often flat AA/KK type hands and just flat him the whole way. This allows him to shovel more money in as a bluff with less equity than if I had 3-bet those hands pre-flop.

I really don't get how you could possibly fold QQ preflop in that situation. That is confusing the crap out of me. If anything, you could flat call and be prepared to ship any flop without an A or a K. The chances of him having KK and AA are so low and the chance of him having AK are so high that if you check/shove to him on a flop with no A or K you are making a huge profit. And even if you were to have flat called with QQ and that other guy still shoves I think he is doing that with JJ AND AK maybe even 1010. Please explain this to me I don't understand how you can fold QQ there.

I really don't get how you could possibly fold QQ preflop in that situation. That is confusing the crap out of me. If anything, you could flat call and be prepared to ship any flop without an A or a K. The chances of him having KK and AA are so low and the chance of him having AK are so high that if you check/shove to him on a flop with no A or K you are making a huge profit. And even if you were to have flat called with QQ and that other guy still shoves I think he is doing that with JJ AND AK maybe even 1010. Please explain this to me I don't understand how you can fold QQ there.

Could you time link to the flop or give me the details of the hand in question?