Full Ring No Limit Poker Forums

Villain is playing 12/8/1.4 vpip/prfr/af
over 40 hands

Small sample size but its all I have.

I think my call prf is debatable, I called because it was likely that the prf Limper which was a fish also came along.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1855814
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP1: $91.57
MP2: $34.42
CO: $59.25
BTN: $106.62
Hero (SB): $103.50
BB: $130.18
UTG: $100.00
UTG+1: $39.00
UTG+2: $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with A 8
4 folds, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, BTN raises to $4, Hero calls $3.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($10.00) 8 5 A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($10.00) K (2 players)
Hero bets $7, BTN calls $7

River: ($24.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $25, Hero ?

I have no real experience at these Full ring games, and I don't know what these large River pot bets usually mean.

This is probably a marginal hand to play oop. Also, the fish is playing shortstacked, so your implied odds against him are close to 0.

Also, why do you check river?

against such a nit I'm never flatting A8s here.
and you should definitely bet the river for value.

This is probably a marginal hand to play oop. Also, the fish is playing shortstacked, so your implied odds against him are close to 0.

Also, why do you check river?

Yeah your right, I guess i have to play less tables and focus a bit more before making decisions.

Do you think if the fish had a 80BB+ stack it becomes playable in this spot? or are you one of those very tight OOP players.(which is a good thing)

I checked river because I initially tought when he didn't cb the flop he was either very strong or had some sort of showdownvalue like JJ, QQ, KK. Once he calls my DKB on the turn I think he is not that strong anymore and I am probably looking at some sort of QT, QJ, KQ hand but then again I think he would cb those hands on the flop, another possibility I initially thought was KK but he would definantly reraise my DKB on the turn. At the river I thought the best play to get value would be to c/c the river if he decided to bluff the river with some missed straight draws. But then he overbets River and I was completly lost and had to think he was super strong again like AA or KK, maybe AK.
I don't know I found this hand really confusing and would love to get some insight from other players here.

against such a nit I'm never flatting A8s here.
and you should definitely bet the river for value.

Your not even flatting when the fish has a 80BB+ stack? And is very likely to come along?
Why should I definantly bet the river for value? what range do you put villain on?"

Could you eloborate your thought process and construct a range on every street -pre.
Do you play a lot full ring? What do people usually turn up with when they pot bet this big?

I have only played 2 days full ring know and I find it very very nitty, I came accross a couple of these huge PSB on Flop and River and don't know what to think of them. I don't know if their is some kinda standard for hands to show up in these spots when people make these kinda plays, (Like when a fish Minbets your cb on a dry flop it usually is Top pair, weak, medium kicker. or an overpair which didn't 3b pre;

Yeah your right, I guess i have to play less tables and focus a bit more before making decisions.

Do you think if the fish had a 80BB+ stack it becomes playable in this spot? or are you one of those very tight OOP players.(which is a good thing)

I checked river because I initially tought when he didn't cb the flop he was either very strong or had some sort of showdownvalue like JJ, QQ, KK. Once he calls my DKB on the turn I think he is not that strong anymore and I am probably looking at some sort of QT, QJ, KQ hand but then again I think he would cb those hands on the flop, another possibility I initially thought was KK but he would definantly reraise my DKB on the turn. At the river I thought the best play to get value would be to c/c the river if he decided to bluff the river with some missed straight draws. But then he overbets River and I was completly lost and had to think he was super strong again like AA or KK, maybe AK.
I don't know I found this hand really confusing and would love to get some insight from other players here.

If he has some SD value hand, he will check it back 100% of the time. If you bet, there is a chance that he will make a mistake and call with a worse hand. River is an easy value bet and there is no reason to check, you got what is likely the best hand, so bet it.

Do you ever think vilain is very strong when he check back this drawy flop?

As played, call, there isnt much that has you beat, AK is unlikely, and he may have slowplayed KK OTT and that's about it. This would also be a weird line with AA, but not impossible. He may play A2 this way as well.

As for the A8s hand oop, calling when there is a weak player that is deeper can be a good option, if you know how to play it correctly postflop. It means that you are able to fold top pair oop when facing some pressure. As your OP suggest, if you can fold 2 pairs, you are probably capable of folding your A when action suggest you are beat.

his preflop raising range might look someting like this:
66+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo
thats 17% of hands.

such a nit prolly doesnt raise the very small PPs and is likely not isoraising super wide here.
if it would be a button open his range changes a lot, but given he iso raises thats pretty much it.

out of that 17% of hands you are dominated by 9% (88+,A9s+,A9o+)
so you are dominated over half of the time! (even if he raises 20% it doesn't make that much of a difference).
you don't dominate any hands in his range and he is definitely going to win money with all the other broadways against you, cause he is in positon and has all the power.

even if the fish comes in the pot and we hit an Axx board (which is one of the best results that could happen), we are still in a really gross spot oop against two ranges that can easily have us beat.
we are flopping 2pair 2% of the time, trips 1,35% of the time and a flush 0,85% of the time.
so we have a chance of 4% to flop really really good, which is less than 1 in 20 times.
we are not going to win enough money these times.

if the iso raiser is looser and isoraises more Ax, more SCs, any PP, some more suited Kx and Qx, then we can think about calling if we have a solid postflop edge, but even then it's probably not the greatest play being oop.

This is most certainly a 3bet or fold spot pre. Say you flop big you only have the chance to win 35bb off the fish, and then you still have to contend with the fact that your hand is dominated a ton by the button range as Poemmel pointed out.

Nice posts guys, I really need to play less tables so I have more time to thorougly think trough the hand and make better decisions preflop. I act way to fast without noticing the players and stacksizes etc involved. Thx for the insight.