Poker Video: SNG by AMT (Micro/Small Stakes)

Last Man Standing: Episode Two

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Last Man Standing: Episode Two by AMT

AMT walks through the basic parts of the middle game of SNG play. Considerations of adjustment, stack size implications, what to do when there are no "absolutes", when to start thinking about shoving, and more about middle game insights.

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Join Alex Triner (AMT), our expert SNG/STT coach as he takes you though the soup to nuts of online SNG/STT play. Starting with early level play, bubble play and moving on to Independent Chip Modeling (ICM) calculations -- all you need to know to get started crushing SNG/STTs online.

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amt sng stt middle stage play ipod friendly powerpoint last man standing

Video Details

  • Game: sng
  • Stakes: Micro/Small Stakes
  • 71 minutes long
  • Posted over 6 years ago

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urinpain

Avatar for urinpain

292 posts
Joined 08/2009

hey AMT, I just changed the type of sng to shorthanded 5max the action is only 5 handed, it takes a lot of postflop play here and playing on low blinds more hands. That's my problem I have some leaks here.. at full ring I knew exactly what I have to do, but here is total different stuff. What hands I should play at early levels, in non- pus/fold period? And what you believe that is the most efficient way to improve my postflop play and my deeper kind of heads up, should I learn the Nash equilibrium strategy with this poor kind of players? What other adjustments do you think I should make? Some thoughts about this will be very helpful!


Why do you have to play more hands in the early stage in a SH SNG? I don't get it. You shouldn't be forced to play more hands in the early stages just because it's shorthanded. Therefore you don't have to deal with more postflop situations, not more than if you had played FR SNGs.

Posted almost 5 years ago

AMT

Avatar for AMT

2036 posts
Joined 01/2008

Why do you have to play more hands in the early stage in a SH SNG? I don't get it. You shouldn't be forced to play more hands in the early stages just because it's shorthanded. Therefore you don't have to deal with more postflop situations, not more than if you had played FR SNGs.




Inherently, you should be playing more hands in shorter handed games. For one thing, the blinds are coming around faster, which gives us more incentive to be trying to pick up pots, even early in a SNG. Secondly, less hands are being dealt; there are less people at the table, and therefore, in its essence, you're simply at a 9 handed with 4 less people. So, if you're UTG in a 5 handed game it's effectively as if you were in MP3 at a full table and a few people had already folded to you.
Finally, people tend to play worse in shorter handed games. With playing more pots comes the tendency to divulge one's post flop leaks more, simply because you're getting involved more and playing more marginal hands with money behind.

So, to try and help further with your specific question, moldovan, it's pretty tough to assign a stringent preflop range for yourself in 5 max games. I'd say the more comfortable you feel post flop with your continued studies, the more you can be opening up your game early. To improve on it, I suggest keeping with the videos,and making sure to post hands for discussion. Finding a study partner is important to, as having a person(s) to ask random hand questions to and to sit down with and collaborate is just so crucial for one's development, even if via email once a week or something. It also might not be a bad idea to watch some MTT and cash game stuff. There tends to be more post flop discussion in these due to the deeper structures and more room to play; the more you hear good players talk about post flop play, the more likely you are to pick up a thing or two about improving your thought processes. As long as you're making sure that you realize that you're applying this to shorthanded STTs and not the cash game or MTT or w/e. Always going to be differences, but they can still help to a certain extend IMO.

In the end, though, putting in the volume and constantly reviewing your own play and discussing your play with others is going to be the key to most peoples' improvement.

I wouldn't adhere to this strictly, but some things that I personally do differently in 6 max SNGs as far as early game preflop open raising ranges that I am tighter with in FRSNGs are probably as follows:

-Raise more pocket pairs (personally I raise 22 utg in a 6 max with 5 other randoms but there are arguments for folding and limping still, too).
-Opening more Ax hands; UTG AJ and ATs do become opens where they often aren't early on UTG in full ring games. From later position you can definitely go wider than this, too. I'm not folding any Ax hands on the button. I'm not open folding KQ pf generally ever.
-Isolating limpers wider- A lot of the time, when you see loose limpers in shorthanded games they probably just are not good. This can go for full ring also, but limping is often more correct in full ring contexts. The more limping preflop you see in shorthanded games, the worse they are likely to be. I'd be isolating loose limpers with all sorts of attractive looking broadway hands, often pairs, and perhaps more marginal Axs hands or high connecting hands, but the more of a read or feel for the table context I have the wider I'll go to this extent.

Those are probably the big areas to look into. I haven't played 5 max specifically, so the payout structures are very important to look into for ICM considerations and they might differ from said implications in the 6 max setting, but the early game is probably going to be similar.

Post some hands in the forum and I'll try and take a look if I see them. Good luck.

Posted almost 5 years ago

urinpain

Avatar for urinpain

292 posts
Joined 08/2009

Inherently, you should be playing more hands in shorter handed games. For one thing, the blinds are coming around faster, which gives us more incentive to be trying to pick up pots, even early in a SNG. Secondly, less hands are being dealt; there are less people at the table, and therefore, in its essence, you're simply at a 9 handed with 4 less people. So, if you're UTG in a 5 handed game it's effectively as if you were in MP3 at a full table and a few people had already folded to you.


Well, this may have come out wrong: ofc you are playing "more" hands, as the earliest position in an SH equals MP3 in a FR, but what I was trying to say was that we aren't playing much looser in an SH than we would in a FR game if the first 4 players had folded (ofc a bit looser, as we don't have 4 hands left before posting the blinds, but this shouldn't matter a ton in the early stages, where we are something like 30+BB deep.)

-Isolating limpers wider- A lot of the time, when you see loose limpers in shorthanded games they probably just are not good. This can go for full ring also, but limping is often more correct in full ring contexts. The more limping preflop you see in shorthanded games, the worse they are likely to be. I'd be isolating loose limpers with all sorts of attractive looking broadway hands, often pairs, and perhaps more marginal Axs hands or high connecting hands, but the more of a read or feel for the table context I have the wider I'll go to this extent.


I guess you do this if you have position on the limper? So if you are in the blinds, you are isolating tighter than if you were on the BU(?)

Those are probably the big areas to look into. I haven't played 5 max specifically, so the payout structures are very important to look into for ICM considerations and they might differ from said implications in the 6 max setting, but the early game is probably going to be similar.


The payout structure is 70/30. Therefore the bubblefactor is a bit lower than in a 6max with 65/35 payout structure.
I have calculated it ones for some scenarious on the bubble and they don't differ very much. (like they do if you compare FR to SH STTs)

Posted almost 5 years ago

AMT

Avatar for AMT

2036 posts
Joined 01/2008

what I was trying to say was that we aren't playing much looser in an SH than we would in a FR game if the first 4 players had folded (ofc a bit looser, as we don't have 4 hands left before posting the blinds, but this shouldn't matter a ton in the early stages, where we are something like 30+BB deep.)



Ok, I'll accept Smile

guess you do this if you have position on the limper? So if you are in the blinds, you are isolating tighter than if you were on the BU(?)



Yes for sure. Particularly in the cutoff and on the button are going to be the most profitable places to be isolating with your widest value ranges. You'll have the highest likelihood of several loose limpers from these spots, and of course you'll likely have good position for the hand.

Posted almost 5 years ago

rickyt88

Avatar for rickyt88

1 posts
Joined 11/2010

Time Link to 01:02:10

I have to disagree with this play, you're not too commited and when I see him raise here I'd have to be convinced I'm beat 95% of the time, you beat 200 and treating his raise as an all-in you have to call 800 more chips off those are alot of chips.

There is the rare time where he may have been trapping with KJ flopped two pair but even than he's rarely checking behind with a flush draw and drawy board. Unless you have a super bluffy image and he thinks you'll fold to his reraise on the river I just think you're beat almost all the time in this situation. If he had a overpair or pair of kings or jacks and hes checking them behind then he's usually passive enough to just call the river value bet instead of reraise.

His river raise after checking behind on the flop and turn looks to me like he made a flush, he checks behind on flop because he doesn't want to get check raised and miss the opportunity to draw cheaply. The other logical hand he made have is a full house, he couldve flopped a set of twos and was trapping, if hes passive or trappy preflop than maybe jacks but kings are unlikely in this spot his reraise is almost always for value in this situation and rarely ever a bluff.

Posted almost 4 years ago

djdoodoo

Avatar for djdoodoo

65 posts
Joined 05/2010

Time Link to 00:11:39

Hi, I have a question. You say no more limping. Imagine this scenario. You are on the dealer button and you pick up a pp44. UTG limps, +1+2 limp and it folds around to you. Would limping in this situation be a bad idea? The same question goes for if you are seated on the SB or BB.

Thankyou for your time and your great videos, its much appreciated.

Posted almost 4 years ago

AMT

Avatar for AMT

2036 posts
Joined 01/2008

Hi, I have a question. You say no more limping. Imagine this scenario. You are on the dealer button and you pick up a pp44. UTG limps, +1+2 limp and it folds around to you. Would limping in this situation be a bad idea? The same question goes for if you are seated on the SB or BB.

Thankyou for your time and your great videos, its much appreciated.




It really depends on the stack sizes and who the players are, as well as how many players are left. It's also going to be a lot different in any MTT setting from anything discussed in this series.

That said, I say 'no more limping' because most often in the turbo STTs, youre sitting on 10-15bb stacks at this point assuming no random coolers or big pots played early on ie 20bb+ is considered a big stack whereas it isn't in so many other tourney structures. For this reason it's usually going to be better to raise/shove or to fold. In your example, if we had, say, 12bb, or our 15bb starting stack even, and we had a hand like 33 or 44, if I expected the limpers to limp loosely and call tightly (ie limp a hand like K9s/A8/JT/98 etc and fold a good few of them to a raise), I'm just going to raise with intentions to get it in post or just jam, as I expected that there's enough money in the pot and any other play will make stacks very awkward, and the implied odds with such a stack when limping for set value quite misleading IMO. Just think we're too short for that sort of thing. In a similar situation with that same 10-15 stack range with just 1 or 2 limpers I can also see valid arguments for just folding these baby pairs (ie no antes, far from the money, flipping for stacks a high % of the time, getting it in multi ways a lot etc).
If we come up with a situation where everyones loose and passive and bad and the table limps around to you in LP with 15bbs, sure, you can make the argument that limping is going to be good, but unless the girth with stack size and resulting implied odds + player tendencies is there, I'm in the shove or fold camp.

Hope that helps.

Posted almost 4 years ago




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