---

Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

This video is tagged as "mixed" not "LHE"?

This video is tagged as "mixed" not "LHE"?

Yeah, this is because our system treats videos with 2 types (in this case SNG+LHE) as "mixed." I've just set it to LHE for now since it's mostly of interest to LHE players.

Rob

Nice! I'm looking forward to the rest of the hands!

Time Link to 00:30:55

Are you assuming that he'll fold Kings only because it's a tournament and cEV favors a fold? In a cash game, I'd assume no one will ever fold KK because of the fact that you can't fold QT, JT, KQ, KJ on this flop, and you'd be smart enough to turn those hands into bluffs once he turns his hand face up by check-calling the turn. It seems like if you weight the distribution of hands that hit this board and the chance that he'll still peel once more in a medium-sized pot, that I'd strongly not prefer floating with 77, only because there are so few situations where he'll even fold TT (any 8, 9, T, K and he won't fold TT, and you'll have to barrel twice to get him to fold TT/KK X% of the time).

Rob

Time Link to 00:06:37

This hand really interests me and is probably the most interesting one in this video, IMO, especially in terms of thinking about how to construct the bottom of your range so that your hand looks like it has less showdown value than it does. Checkraising this board with nearly 100% of your continuation range seems like it could be viable, but it also seems like it could be viable to check-call with some of your weaker draws (86, 65) and pairs (7x, 66-22), and then re-evaluate on the turn what the correct play is.

Once the 5 falls on the turn, what are your thoughts (especially in a tournament, where winning pots without contention can be a good thing) about donking?

The 5 improves a LOT of your range more than it does his, and if you're check-raising lots of draws on the flop, he should know approximately what you have (weak draws, weak pairs, and possibly some strong hands as well to maximize turn checkraise value), and bet significantly less on the turn (specifically with hands like KJ and KT, though maybe also with hands like JT and T8s). The 5 improves SO MUCH of your check-calling range on the flop that it seems like he should check behind, especially with his hands that have outs, both to avoid you checkraising the turn and to avoid betting the turn with minimal equity when you're not folding.

In a small pot when he'll take a free card often, it seems like betting to avoid letting him reverse freeroll you has merit. I'm not convinced it's the right play, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. It's complicated somewhat by you picking up a gutshot and playing against a world class player, but given that I learned how to donkbet from you and Mike L, I'm surprised you didn't mention it here.

Rob

I think the problem with donking that turn is that I peel flop with all sorts of weak hands like King highs you mentioned, any Ax, and they just don't seem like I should turn them into bluffs there because he only folds a few slightly better ace highs or hands that I already beat? In a tournament getting him to fold live cards has merit but risking a whole BB to do so I think is too dangerous, I'd rather just check it down in a tournament. And in a cash game I think I'd rather protect my peel range and also be able to turn some stuff into bluffs on river or give him a nasty guessing game when turn goes check/check on when to call me on the river since now I bluff a ton with all my weakest peels. Part of all those thoughts are that I peel the flop a lot lighter than some. I'm not sure you are wrong or anything though, those little pots are indeed often the most interesting.

Are you assuming that he'll fold Kings only because it's a tournament and cEV favors a fold? In a cash game, I'd assume no one will ever fold KK because of the fact that you can't fold QT, JT, KQ, KJ on this flop, and you'd be smart enough to turn those hands into bluffs once he turns his hand face up by check-calling the turn. It seems like if you weight the distribution of hands that hit this board and the chance that he'll still peel once more in a medium-sized pot, that I'd strongly not prefer floating with 77, only because there are so few situations where he'll even fold TT (any 8, 9, T, K and he won't fold TT, and you'll have to barrel twice to get him to fold TT/KK X% of the time).

Rob

You def might be right, I kinda felt I had a dynamic with him where he would not expect me to bet QT, KQ type hands there because of the tournament dynamic of just kinda wanting to check it down, but that is a lot to ask for sure. In the video I suggested even if he never folds Kings its close, I'm not sure if that's accurate combo counting wise though?

I think the problem with donking that turn is that I peel flop with all sorts of weak hands like King highs you mentioned, any Ax, and they just don't seem like I should turn them into bluffs there because he only folds a few slightly better ace highs or hands that I already beat? In a tournament getting him to fold live cards has merit but risking a whole BB to do so I think is too dangerous, I'd rather just check it down in a tournament. And in a cash game I think I'd rather protect my peel range and also be able to turn some stuff into bluffs on river or give him a nasty guessing game when turn goes check/check on when to call me on the river since now I bluff a ton with all my weakest peels. Part of all those thoughts are that I peel the flop a lot lighter than some. I'm not sure you are wrong or anything though, those little pots are indeed often the most interesting.

Yeah - I'm still not sure whether I like a bet or not but I think it's worth thinking about. It may be too difficult to balance betting with the rest of your strategy, but the main argument I had was not that he'd fold immediately, but that he'd still call with a lot of his range that he wouldn't (??) bet.

My guess is your peeling range is tighter on this texture (I'm guessing K8 is probably one of the weaker non-draw peels you make here, but I could be wrong), especially in a tournament, and it's pretty likely he knows this, so he shouldn't bet too frequently. He will still be calling somewhat liberally, especially given the frequency of his hands that will have turned some sort of gutshot or flopped a gutshot, especially given the apparent weakness of your hand. Obviously you're both playing a "he knows that I know" strategy so coming up with a GTO approximation here is probably best, so I'd find it interesting to have a plan that includes bet-3betting, bet-calling intending to calldown, bet-calling intending to fold UI, checkraising, and check-calling in your turn actions. I'm just not sure where hands like 87o (bet twice for value) or hands like J8o/K8o (bet twice as a bluff) should fall into your overall range construction. In the moment I definitely understand the argument for simplifying your line because I'm getting confused just thinking about this away from the table, but betting definitely would have crossed my mind.

Either way I found this hand interesting as hell, and was partly trying to see if there's an argument for the one line you didn't discuss much. I'm definitely not comfortable in spots like this when there are variables I'm not good at weighting in GTO calcs (cEV, turn raising ranges in tournaments, etc).

Rob