Tehanu
105 posts
Joined 02/2008
The first hand with The_Venetian,
The turn raise as a bluff is horrendous imo but at the same time i feel that checking AA/KK, sets or maybe even a hand like AK/AQ of hearts here to mix it up would be pretty neat play imo. I feel that often when people check drawy middle card flops as the pf raiser they always have missed overcards or so everyone likes to think and i think you can get people to spaz off with any piece or air after that.
Posted over 3 years ago
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midnitetoker
585 posts
Joined 04/2009
AMT
2021 posts
Joined 01/2008
The first hand with The_Venetian,
The turn raise as a bluff is horrendous imo but at the same time i feel that checking AA/KK, sets or maybe even a hand like AK/AQ of hearts here to mix it up would be pretty neat play imo. I feel that often when people check drawy middle card flops as the pf raiser they always have missed overcards or so everyone likes to think and i think you can get people to spaz off with any piece or air after that.
Well, I do like it more vs this stack size, but there's a reason people think that others will have missed if they check, and it has to do with the fact that they do miss a lot
But they also still get peeled a lot by unknowns at these games on these types of flops a good deal for both this reason and the fact that the texture just does a good job of hitting a lot of their defending ranges. So I think it can be fine but I'd prefer some type of read (perhaps even more than just that he's a half stack in the blinds and unknown) before doing that with any type of frequency. Also, even if i I did do it, it's almost never with the intention of these "check back flop as pfr, raise a turn bet" line, as you really constrict the # of hands that you represent and if the goal is to get villain to spazz when trying a move like that, it'd be better to check back flop, call turn, and raise the river.
Posted over 3 years ago
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AMT
2021 posts
Joined 01/2008
"If you were dealt one card, also call."
Hilarious, had me rolling on the floor.
But now I want a mathematical proof. Interesting enough to me at least, I'll probably end up working on it
.
I did not seek the mathematical proof behind the claims that it is profitable to call with just one card here, so don't kill me if you find out that it's not plz
But I would definitely be writing to the poker site that you're playing on and ask for my money back if that were the case, so either way you're free rolling!
Posted over 3 years ago
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Tehanu
105 posts
Joined 02/2008
Well, I do like it more vs this stack size, but there's a reason people think that others will have missed if they check, and it has to do with the fact that they do miss a lot
But they also still get peeled a lot by unknowns at these games on these types of flops a good deal for both this reason and the fact that the texture just does a good job of hitting a lot of their defending ranges. So I think it can be fine but I'd prefer some type of read (perhaps even more than just that he's a half stack in the blinds and unknown) before doing that with any type of frequency. Also, even if i I did do it, it's almost never with the intention of these "check back flop as pfr, raise a turn bet" line, as you really constrict the # of hands that you represent and if the goal is to get villain to spazz when trying a move like that, it'd be better to check back flop, call turn, and raise the river.
Agreed 
I think i mostly like it against thinking players/regulars because the recreational player will stack you anyway with the second pair or a gutshot if they feel it coming. If the turn is a somewhat safe card i'd definetely go for the call and raise river but like in this case if you had black aces i'd probably raise the turn cause there's way too many bad rivers.
Good vid overall. I think i've been a bit too tight on the button when i've played a few of these.
Posted over 3 years ago
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poon8855
293 posts
Joined 08/2008
Hey, It looks like 7th doubles there money up to the 12 dollar buy in on stars. In the 27 dollar turbos, 7th gets 37.37. So it looks like the structure changes to a more top heavy pay out at the 27$ buy in
Posted over 3 years ago
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AMT
2021 posts
Joined 01/2008
Time Link to 00:52:00
EDIT: I edited my timelink post and the time link got erased 
Below I'm referring to the ATo spot where we're facing a decision to call or fold at Approx. ~52:00
Hey guys, I feel that I am sometimes too wordy with my explanations (sorry, always trying to work on it!), and was kind of the case in the ATo hand imo. Basically, for those that are still lost on the whole hand, what I was trying to say was that I feel that randoms are more closely adhering to the last 2 ranges that we ran, and because the profitability curve of EVcall is so sharp (the drops we saw from +0.5 to -0.6), you'd have to be very confident in your range assessment being really close to that 2nd range (or wider) to want to make the call. That, combined with his actual table positioning, the fact that we have a workable stack, the somewhat flat payout and the exact-bubble implications make me think it is a reasonable fold without any specific information about the opponent (wheres vs a lot of regulars or certain randoms that we have some info on, or with slightly different stacks or table positioning, it could well turn into a call for me in-game).
Hope this helps to clarify anything that wasn't clear.
Tehanu,
TY
(and re: Black aces raising the turn there, that's fine if we got here like that, but we still really can't be raise/folding vs random half stacks even on this turn. We should either raise/call or just better to flat with 'em).
poon,
Thanks for pointing that out; good to note as this could definitely have implications on our late game play, but best to confirm all the payout jumps to see where the distributions lie. Just the 7th payout spot in itself might be misleading or not tell us the whole story on how much different the payouts may be (or how much differently it'd end up effecting our decisions in similar situations in both the different payouts).
Posted over 3 years ago
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xhgrising
25 posts
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lmagalhaes
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Zekeret
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AMT
2021 posts
Joined 01/2008
..
I'm assuming this is regarding the above posts? Check out episode 5 of this series (and of course the accompanying discussion thread). It's of me 4 tabling the $12/180s and talking through aspects of game play.
Posted about 3 years ago
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YugiohPro
443 posts
Joined 02/2009