Tournament Poker Poker Forums

your example doesn't mean much without describing the action. hard to say if you're setting it up right or not.

The same one as yours...all in pre flop....both have 2000 stacks.

I don't know if you're confusing a few things: tournament equity, and hand equity (showdown %).

Tournament equity (TE) is related to your stack in relation to others. Show down % is obviously your hands strength vs. opponents range.

When your calling hand strength (showdown %) vs. opponents range is less than your risk/risk+reward (TE risked/potential TE acquired) is, your making mistakes that will cost you real money.

You have to add some % to account for the ICM (I'm personally not understanding the cEV calculations going on ITT), but basically your hand should be as good as or better than your hand's SD% vs. a villain's range + (this is a wild guess) 0-9% (generally). This is ICM.

Of course there are times where your risk as a big stack vs. another big stack is so great that no hand will give the showdown % that the ICM demands. You'll have to decide that.

I don't know if you're confusing a few things: tournament equity, and hand equity (showdown %).

Tournament equity (TE) is related to your stack in relation to others. Show down % is obviously your hands strength vs. opponents range.

When your calling hand strength (showdown %) vs. opponents range is less than your risk/risk+reward (TE risked/potential TE acquired) is, your making mistakes that will cost you real money.

You have to add some % to account for the ICM (I'm personally not understanding the cEV calculations going on ITT), but basically your hand should be as good as or better than your hand's SD% vs. a villain's range + (this is a wild guess) 0-9% (generally). This is ICM.

Of course there are times where your risk as a big stack vs. another big stack is so great that no hand will give the showdown % that the ICM demands. You'll have to decide that.

Maybe...I still think I know how to do it via a calculator during a hand...

if a guy on the flop bets 800 into a 3000 pot...and we put him on a FD...and we have top pair top kicker...

say we're 65% favourite...

I think it's..

0.65 X 3000 + (0.35 X -800)

1950 + - 280 = 1670

Maybe that's wrong..who knows That's right I think....


P.S What is the difference between pot odds and EV calculations? Aren't they the same but phrased differently?

Maybe...I still think I know how to do it via a calculator during a hand...

If you're playing STTs (single table tournaments) this is quite useless to you. You should be using ICM, not calculate are you gaining or losing chips.

if a guy on the flop bets 800 into a 3000 pot...and we put him on a FD...and we have top pair top kicker...

say we're 65% favourite...

I think it's..

0.65 X 3000 + (0.35 X -800)

1950 + - 280 = 1670

Maybe that's wrong..who knows That's right I think....

This is wrong, if the pot is already 3000 and opponent bets 800 into it. If pot is 3000 after your opponent has bet into it (but you haven't called), your calculations are right.

If the pot is already 3000 and opponent bets 800 more, it's like this:

0.65 X 3800 + (0.35 X -800)

2470 + -280 = 2190

P.S What is the difference between pot odds and EV calculations? Aren't they the same but phrased differently?

Pot odds are the relation of how much you need to call and how large the pot is. It does not care about your hand and how it fares against other hands. In your case, pot odds for this would be 800 / 4600 = 1:5.75. Or if it's 3000 after your opponent has bet, then 800 / 3800 = 1:4.75.

watch the icm from scratch again jtx can you do that for tourneys too, say look at all my 10bb play? how?

I have missed answering to this one. Yes, you can do that for even larger tourneys. Filter the tourneys you want to review by date and input a filter for effective stacks at 10BB (and if you want to filter only to final table ICM decisions, use the blind level filters). Select all the hands, right click "Copy Hands For Clipboard" and in SNG Wiz press "Paste Hand History" (Fifth button from the right).

It's a bit ugly way to do it, but the best way I know. You can also use filters in Results -> Data View for single tourneys and get only "push/fold hands" from a tourney.

Ouch. My head hurts

It doesn't care about your hand? So how does that work? I thought you made the call based on the number of outs your hand had...and if so...if you didn't put your opponent on a range then making a call would be silly if you were going to be beat when you hit....having said that....my knowledge on pot odds/EV etc is very bad as you can see...but that was my thought process initially.

Pot odds don't care about your hand and how it fares against the opponent's range.

For EV calculations you need to have your hand and how it fares against your opponents range. That's the difference.

So if pot odds doesn't care about your hand...how is it supposed to help you?

if your winning chances are greater than the pot odds then it is profitable to play. thats how pot odds help you (there is way more than that to it, i guess that would do it for now)

for the 800/3800 example, pot odds are 1:4.7, meaning you will only need to win once ever 5.7 times, (around 17% of the time) in order to break even.

If only there were videos on this site that would cover these topics.

Clearly this vandweller guy has been sitting around without doing anything useful. We could use some ICM / push fold / videos man ...