Software and Tools Poker Forums

Hi guys,

I'm a struggling micro-stakes player trying the hardest I can to improve as fast as I can, but I think I should improve the quality of my study/notes taking process.

I mean I've "browsed" ( as in started and never finished ) dozens of poker books, watched at least one episode from several series, and tried all the possible ways to take/store notes.

I have plenty of sticky notes on my main display ( windows display, not physically post-its ), stored notes in text documents, OO/Word docs, Google docs or web pages, have also a dozen different sizes/shapes/formats physical paper notebooks started, tried Evernote and a couple more online apps, but in the end I have plenty of scattered information everywhere and probably much less of it in my head while playing

So I wonder what should I be doing differently, maybe have a unique information repository, create some categories ( like pre-flop, flop play, turn, river, 3bet pots, etc. ) and add to each appropriate category instead of creating a new notes template for each new video/article/book I read ?

The downside would be that there will be lots of categories, and where do you put those borderline things of cross-categories subjects ?

On the positive I imagine it would be easier to review things, like say I call too much 3bets, I'll have a "call 3bet" category with all the infos on the subject to review whenever I want.

In fact I'm not sure if this is really software related, but can't figure a better category to put this in, if I'm wrong, thanks to any mod who can move this to a better place. I think is more of a "how to study" issue, but storing/reviewing notes seems quite important, and I'm certainly doing wrong, as there's plenty of notes I've taken that I have no recollection on right now ...

any tip/idea/suggestion would be greatly appreciated ...

thank you and GL at the tables

From reading your post, I get the impression that you not absorbing the material you are studying. I find poker videos valuable for the concepts they teach, rather than what to do in a particular spot. If you really understand the concept you are studying, you'll remember it. Then you'll use it at the table and over time that concept will become part of your skill set. Simply "browsing" videos isn't really enough. You have to have actively think about the material being presented. You have to hit pause and try to understand what the coach said or did. When you do that, you'll be learning actively and you'll remember the ideas.

All the notes in the world won't help you if you can't bring that knowledge to the table when you play.

To organize your videos notes and make filters you can try http://poker.itminfo.com/pvo

For books and articles I don't know any related soft...

Evernote,
I create a new "notebook" for every Video I watch, keeps it quite organized, but tbh I wouldnt really need that because I mostly just write notes for writing's sake to memorize / understand / check that I understood concepts (unless I dont understand it and want to post or ask someone) so I dont think organzing your notes is that important, but maybe that is a leak

Probably Evernote, Keynote or something similar would be good enough. Searching a bit I've found this page http://www.donationcoder.com/Reviews/Archive/NoteTakers1/index.php that describes several note taking software.

Anyone here used Mybase ? Keynote looks nice and this one is supposedly some kind of upgrade in terms of functionalities. Guess I'll try the trial version anyway.

@hurla: very good point, you're spot on, I'm definitely not absorbing much/enough of the stuff I watch. I do stop videos in order to take notes, but I'm certainly doing something wrong, because indeed, when I hit the tables not much of the knowledge seems to have sticked on ...

I may be wrong- but in my experience discipline is much more important than any fancy concepts at the micros. When I play bad/run bad/ don't win etc.... its usually because I'm over thinking things or getting antsy.

If you have that many books and notes you may be over thinking things a bit for micro play.

Thank you guys, this is turning into something more important and useful to me than my original quest for an utility software.

@Tuenman07: you're spot on as well ...

To sum it up:
[X] lack of discipline ( quite often when getting into C-game mode - calling too many 3bets, or calling too many streets postflop, or making loosing river hero calls )
[X] over thinking
[X] FPS every now and then ( for instance trying silly bluffs that don't work )
[X] not absorbing enough of the knowledge from videos I watch
[X] not bringing enough of that knowledge to the table when playing

Now the million dollars question: how do I cure those problems ?!

I definately over think the micros, for 6 weeks i went on a 20 bi tear playing approx 4k hands a week. Then i started reading and watching material on advanced concepts and things for 200nl+ and have gone on a huge 10bi downswing.
I just cannot get to winning again i dont know what i have learned that is causing me to get owned so much but i need to find out and forget it very quickly, i dont know what im doing on the turn when i c bet any more, ive started checking the turn for pot control then getting donked into on the river and calling with the worst hand. Its a total nightmare and extremely dissapointing.

So I wonder what should I be doing differently, maybe have a unique information repository, create some categories ( like pre-flop, flop play, turn, river, 3bet pots, etc. ) and add to each appropriate category instead of creating a new notes template for each new video/article/book I read ?

Whoa, you threw me there. I thought you were going somewhere else with that... you're looking to do this for videos and books that you read?

I'll tell you a little story, and you can take what you will from it. I was working with my coach one day doing a HH review and found myself talking him through a hand and critiquing my play as I went. These were hands that I had marked, but hadn't reviewed yet. The light bulb went off in my head as I spoke with this coach (and this wasn't my first coach, or my second coach, LOL).... I knew way more than what was showing up when I played.

Whatever you do, the information, knowledge, and most importantly THOUGHT PROCESS has to transfer from your notes to your working memory. That's the bottom line.

Poker is sort of an open book test I suppose (since there's nothing outlawing you having notes in front of you), but the time constraint to act pretty much imposes a more standard test. You have to know what you're doing.

Whoa, you threw me there. I thought you were going somewhere else with that... you're looking to do this for videos and books that you read?

I'll tell you a little story, and you can take what you will from it. I was working with my coach one day doing a HH review and found myself talking him through a hand and critiquing my play as I went. These were hands that I had marked, but hadn't reviewed yet. The light bulb went off in my head as I spoke with this coach (and this wasn't my first coach, or my second coach, LOL).... I knew way more than what was showing up when I played.

Whatever you do, the information, knowledge, and most importantly THOUGHT PROCESS has to transfer from your notes to your working memory. That's the bottom line.

Poker is sort of an open book test I suppose (since there's nothing outlawing you having notes in front of you), but the time constraint to act pretty much imposes a more standard test. You have to know what you're doing.

How did you learn to implement what you knew to the poker tables. I go on super autopilot and can not think about a range for a whole session then at the end of it think WTF was i doing that whole session.

@euEra: yeah, I know the feeling, in March I was something like more than 30bi/100 over 14K hands in NL2 ( not a large sample size, but it was good to have an ascending graph ), this month I'm a bit back to old/bad habits and graph has peaks and crevices and starts to resemble an earthquake trace...

@StueysKid:

Whoa, you threw me there. I thought you were going somewhere else with that... you're looking to do this for videos and books that you read?

Yes, I usually take notes from videos and books, and currently I have plenty of notes scattered in a zillion places and much less in my working memory. I was thinking that by better storage and cross-linking information ( many books/vids will talk about preflop play so I'll have plenty of paragraphs in several places about pf, without an easy way to get to all of them ) I'll be able to improve my play.

Whatever you do, the information, knowledge, and most importantly THOUGHT PROCESS has to transfer from your notes to your working memory. That's the bottom line.

Exactly, I was thinking the problem to be with my note storing process and lack of cross-linked information. It looks Evernote using tags will fix this, but it turns out my main problem is elsewhere, because as you said, my memory does not absorb enough of those notes and the thought process does not improve as much as it could/should.

How to do this better ?! It might look like a silly question with obvious/common sense answers, but there are moments when you question everything your doing and look for other opinions to improve your way of doing things.

The first rule to improving at something is to apply thought when doing it. This can get challenging in poker because there's too many things to focus on. One strategy might be to narrow the focus to one or two things. Another idea, and one that I do, is to find a way to apply the thought AWAY from the tables, but in a poker context.

For example, if you review someone's HH on DC - you're actively applying a thought process to the hand. You can keep the same narrow focus (one or two things) while doing this, you can make it wider since you have more time (say, now you're hunting for 10 different aspects while reviewing someone's HH), or you can artificially create hands (or I should say, re-create) that you drill down the same exact thought process on. This last one is the one I do for myself, but I think I'm weird and I'm probably the only one that does it.

What makes a hand interesting or memorable to me is if I miss something. If someone else points out an aspect I didn't notice, or if I found an aspect I didn't notice after giving it much thought, that's probably a spot where my thought process is weak.... and I like to correct weakness the same way I'd do it if I were playing football, basketball, baseball, or any other sport - I practice that aspect until I get it down.

The light bulb went off in my head as I spoke with this coach (and this wasn't my first coach, or my second coach, LOL).... I knew way more than what was showing up when I played.

This is very important and I had the same experience with a coach as well. When I was reviewing hands I was pointing out myself most of my mistakes.

I think getting the knowledge and making sure you understand it is one thing, but you have to take the time to think about your decisions while playing. Often, we lack concentration because we play too many tables or we just click buttons without thinking much. Also there is a lot to learn just by revewing your own marked hands....

It happen so often that I make a bluff that makes no sense, and the minute my opponent call, I know exactly why it didnt worked.... same for other situations, but I think you will get the point.

okay, my last comment on this topic unless someone comes in with an awesome idea (in which case, I'll chime in and thank whoever posts it)
Go to Google, and type in Spaced Repetition. You'll then have pretty much what I do with poker stuff I learn.

Here's something that really helped me:

When I was losing a lot, I did some in depth analysis of my stats with HEM. My VPIP was around 26% at 6max. That's fine for someone with a LAG style, but I realized that I was ending up in a lot of awkward spots where I just didn't know what to do. And when that happens, you tend to play without a plan, ie fire a cbet just because you don't know what else to do, fire 2 and 3 barrels (in bad spots), bluff the wrong players, etc etc. I lacked the postflop experience to deal with these awkward spots and so I just played badly. And lost regularly.

3 things that really helped:
1. I tightened up my game to approx 20/16 (TAG-like)
2. I stopped calling 3bets oop (with some exceptions).
3. I forced myself to fold more.

This had a dramatic effect on my results. Perhaps I'm just not suited to a LAG style, or perhaps my postflop skills hadn't developed to the point where I could play that style profitably. Whatever the reason, when I switched to a TAG style my results were much much better. Folding the junk preflop is the best start. Forget calling a 3bet oop w 66-TT, AQ/AJ/KQ and SC. Just fold it (or 4bet). If you have a hand that is good enough to play, 4bet it rather than call oop. And when you're facing severe heat postflop, you're TP or overpair probably isn't good. Fold them. Obviously it depends on who you're playing. If a hyper aggressive player who is constantly raising draws/overcards/air is putting the pressure on, you might consider calling down. But in general, facing a raise (and without a good read) you should be looking to make good folds.

You didn't mention what kind of a style you play, but I suggest tightening up preflop. Don't call 3bets oop. This 2 things alone may help you greatly postflop. It will simplify your decisions so you're not constantly trying to figure out what to do in the heat of battle. You want your postflop decisions to be as clear cut as possible. Most opponents won't be raising you postflop without a decent hand like 2pair, sets, made straights/flushes, pair+NFD, most of which crush your TP. Make the fold unless you have seen that player make light raises with underpairs/bottom pairs/gutshots/air.

Hope that helps.