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Pretty much... not convinced its standard for other micro guys though? could be wrong though.

i'm c/f'ing the flop, so you are not wrong. gl 3bet!

i'm c/f'ing the flop, so you are not wrong. gl 3bet!

Think more about ranges and what he cbets and how likely your villian is to just be a pussy and fold.

Think more about ranges and what he cbets and how likely your villian is to just be a pussy and fold.

So you base the 4bet OTF on the fact that he's just a pussy? Because in my experience in the micros, most players don't have a flop 4bet bluffing range. ha ha

Think more about ranges and what he cbets and how likely your villian is to just be a pussy and fold.

i keep forgetting the pussy factor.

does our hand matter here? are we thinking we're blocking AK or that we have some backdoor outs (straight and clubs)?

The pussy comment was more if he would fold to the c/r and honestly you will find a ton of villians who will fold down to premiums here so i think folding is bad especially when his range is so air heavy in this spot. The back door outs are a plus for sure

btw i wouldn't recommend 5beting flop vs most but i think c/r ing good boards will get you a fair amount of folds as from what i have seen people even time down want to play back but ultimately pussy out

The pussy comment was more if he would fold to the c/r and honestly you will find a ton of villians who will fold down to premiums here so i think folding is bad especially when his range is so air heavy in this spot. The back door outs are a plus for sure

You x/r because your assumption was that he folds down to premiums, but then he doesn't fold, so you 4bet? Seems contradictory - or was he just an unknown and you expect unknowns to fold a lot (player population read), but when he makes a small 3bet after cbetting so small you scratch your initial player population assumption and assume he's still air heavy and full of it?

I agree with your line, but just saying the quoted logic seems incomplete. I think your assumptions were that a) he folds a lot and b) when he doesn't fold, he calls his strong hands the majority of the time, thus making a x/r/4bet line best and a give up if called line best?

Well, it's not as though he didn't have any equity. He did have two backdoor draws and maybe an over card.

Edit: looking at the hand again, he has even more than two backdoor draws... he has like 4 or 5

i cant believe i only just found this thread. Nice work 3bet nice to see someone giving back to the community! And gl with the prop bet, (unless you play on my site).

i think i know where my objection's coming from. i don't click it back enough. if i was to 4bet this spot (i understand, not advised), i'd prob go allin and get called by 88.

Will we get to see a graph?

You x/r because your assumption was that he folds down to premiums, but then he doesn't fold, so you 4bet? Seems contradictory - or was he just an unknown and you expect unknowns to fold a lot (player population read), but when he makes a small 3bet after cbetting so small you scratch your initial player population assumption and assume he's still air heavy and full of it?

I agree with your line, but just saying the quoted logic seems incomplete. I think your assumptions were that a) he folds a lot and b) when he doesn't fold, he calls his strong hands the majority of the time, thus making a x/r/4bet line best and a give up if called line best?

I was trying to say that people on DC that play the micros mostly just call pf and c/f here and that is a big mistake imo i think he 4bets here with hands he's scared to play turns with or is just out and out bluffing and yes if he calls im most likely super done with the hand.

Sorry that i wasn't very eloquent about explaining my reasoning this is something im trying to improve on a ton.

Well, it's not as though he didn't have any equity. He did have two backdoor draws and maybe an over card.

Edit: looking at the hand again, he has even more than two backdoor draws... he has like 4 or 5

I would have played this hand the same with 8h

Hey guys did i mess this up a ton on the river? He was 86/45 not raising river is pretty bad imo as i had seen him donk top pair like this and call a raise but once he clicks back do you guys think i should be just calling? i shove becasue i never think he folds any two pair hand or even good Kx but he was the type to call till he hit with draws... maybe people with more expereince playing vs these types of people can give me some advise.

98o/ call pf calls flop + turn ck/bk riv 68tj5
47/ called twice on three flush JT7TX
j8o/ min raise calls min 3bet bets 1/2 calls shove J79 45bb deep
AJo/ calls 3bet calls flop+turn donks bets half on river a3523 after getting checked to
Got in 200bb w k6 on kkx


NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
SB ($29.58)
BB ($20)
UTG ($20)
CO ($20.91)
Hero ($21.88)

Dealt to Hero 4 3

fold, CO calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, fold, BB checks

FLOP ($0.70) 5 6 K

BB checks, CO bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80, BB folds

TURN ($2.30) 5 6 K 2

CO checks, Hero bets $1.80, CO calls $1.80

RIVER ($5.90) 5 6 K 2 Q

CO bets $2.40, Hero raises to $7, CO raises to $11.60, Hero raises to $19.08 (AI), CO calls $6.51 (AI)

I think in general, I'd be raising river (probably bigger than your size) and folding to a shove. When he clicks it back, I'd make a crying call because of our odds and the fact that he might shove a flush rather than click it back.

We only need ~16% equity to call the extra $4.60 on the river and >50% to shove the river.

I suck

ty ty

Anyone have a link to the vid for a Johnny come lately?

Just a call here, he's never bluffing and I would have to see him over rep a hand like a set where a flush is the nuts or top pair where there's 3/4 to a straight to shove over his raise. Depends on his crapness at measuring relative hand values and/or his maniacness

Pretty interesting spot IMO vs a 17/12 over 1k hand



NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
SB ($18.77)
BB ($29.77)
UTG ($7.49)
UTG+1 ($27.35)
Hero ($26.76)
BTN ($20.69)

Dealt to Hero K A

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.60, fold, fold, BB calls $0.40

FLOP ($1.30) K 3 A

BB checks, Hero bets $0.90, BB calls $0.90

TURN ($3.10) K 3 A 3

BB checks, Hero bets $2.10, BB calls $2.10

RIVER ($7.30) K 3 A 3 7

BB checks, Hero bets $4.80, BB raises to $21.70, Hero....

Pretty interesting spot IMO vs a 17/12 over 1k hand



NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
SB ($18.77)
BB ($29.77)
UTG ($7.49)
UTG+1 ($27.35)
Hero ($26.76)
BTN ($20.69)

Dealt to Hero K A

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.60, fold, fold, BB calls $0.40

FLOP ($1.30) K 3 A

BB checks, Hero bets $0.90, BB calls $0.90

TURN ($3.10) K 3 A 3

BB checks, Hero bets $2.10, BB calls $2.10

RIVER ($7.30) K 3 A 3 7

BB checks, Hero bets $4.80, BB raises to $21.70, Hero....

I really have a hard time coming up with anything he's shoving for value with. 33, A3s or A7? Can't imagine any back door flush draw is in their range minus QJ or QT. I probably call here and then post in the "Shouldve folded" thread.

I really have a hard time coming up with anything he's shoving for value with. 33, A3s or A7? Can't imagine any back door flush draw is in their range minus QJ or QT. I probably call here and then post in the "Shouldve folded" thread.

Me and chad had a pretty length discussion about it, i think its a fold ( i did fold) idk about it though close i guess

massively interesting... does he really rep a club there? QJcc QT are the only ones... that an slowplayed AK

massively interesting... does he really rep a club there? QJcc QT are the only ones... that an slowplayed AK

Its one of those spots where he can literally have nothing He never has a set other than quads but can probably call twice with QJcc QTcc im ready to get a lot of shit for folding but tbh i think it may be good we are calling to chop or to loose (even somewhat questionable he raises AK on the river) we have around 19% equity vs QTcc QJcc 33 AK we need around 35% to call.

He is a pretty big nit so i don't give him credit for ever bluffing also his massive raise was weird which made me wanna fold more but call a bit more in other respects.

A3s is only 2 combos and he folds pre or raises flop with that alot. 33 is one combo and raises flop a lot. QJcc, JTcc, QTcc raise flop or turn some of the time. So we're only looking at like 2-3 value combos when you wait them down. So even if there's a small % that he just watched a highstakes video where the coach was turning made hands into bluffs on the river, then it's a call imo. However, a 17/12 over 1K hands is so unlikely to do that (unless you have any other reads) plus the rake factors in such that I would probably fold. But its so close and you get info so I don't think the EV is really much different either way.

Baluga Theorem, fold!

Baluga Theorem, fold!

Do you even know the beluga thing it relates to something quite different